A Thanet councillor has been stonewalled in her attempts to uncover the information detailing exactly why Dreamland decided to shut down the Scenic Railway ride.
In January Dreamland bosses announced the Grade II* listed ride would be ‘retired’ with plans for it to be ‘reimagined,’ as keeping it running had become ‘unviable.’
At that time park bosses said they would need to complete these daily inspections, which they say engineers indicate would take up to five hours each day, and so decided the park was no longer able to operate the ride.
The announcement provoked an outcry from residents, organisations and Thanet council, with many highlighting that, following a fire in 2008, the structure had been substantially rebuilt in 2014.
In May, The Isle of Thanet News exclusively revealed that a document submitted by Dreamland to The National Lottery Heritage Fund last August said the Scenic Railway was no longer safe to operate because ‘shortcomings’ in the replacement timber for the structure meant it was ‘rotting from the base upwards.’
Council deputy leader Helen Whitehead had to resort to sending a Freedom of Information request to the National Lottery Heritage Fund in a bid to get sight of documents and emails relating to the conditions of (NLHF) funding awarded to revive the Dreamland site prior to its 2015 reopening – particularly around the Scenic Railway – and documentation and recorded conversations/emails with Dreamland relating to the proposal to shut down the Scenic Railway.
But in response she received just eight out of 500 held documents with some just ‘black blocks’ where they had been fully redacted and others mostly redacted.
Six documents and one email were withheld fully, citing ‘information provided in confidence.’ One of these documents was a press statement and another, citing a timeline for a ‘repurposed’ Scenic Railway, had already been seen by The Isle of Thanet News and released via FOI to a member of the public without being redacted.
An additional email and a legal advice document were withheld on legal privilege grounds.
Cllr Whitehead says she has been thwarted in attempts to receive information that the public is entitled to see and that the council should be given without having to resort to sending an FOI.
She said: “Public bodies have a duty, both legal and moral, to work with each other, especially on issues that are this significant; namely the permanent loss of a functioning, listed seaside asset, recognised internationally and nationally.
“Live Nation and Dreamland have refused all requests for information from Thanet District Council and from our Overview and Scrutiny Committee. They are consistently deleting any social media requests from local residents for information or for the Scenic Railway to be reopened, and are clearly hoping that something as significant as the permanent closure of a listed asset will just go away.
“It is not going to go away.
“I request, yet again, the documents that Thanet residents have a full right to see concerning a listed asset in their community, and ask that other public bodies and Ministers fully support us in those requests.
“This is a public asset, funded through public money, and the very least that those who love it and have funded it deserve is the right to understand why it has been closed.
“No one wants to force a ride that is unsafe to remain open. What is requested is simply the release of those documents used to make that decision, as residents have an absolute right to access the information used to make a closure decision.
“Currently, in spite of multiple requests to Live Nation, Dreamland, and involved public bodies, those documents remain unreleased and emails requesting them remain unanswered.”
Thanet council officers say the grade II* listing of the Scenic means the owners have to ensure it is maintained and protected but there is no obligation to operate the ride.
Councillors have been told there are no council enforcement powers to order Dreamland to run the ride but the authority can “keep the condition of the scenic railway under review, and take appropriate enforcement action if its condition deteriorates to the point that the structure is at serious risk of harm.”
Any change of use or physical alterations will require listed building consent and planning permission from the council.
August 2024 was the last time the Scenic was in operation. Dreamland says it will now “develop a Scenic Railway exhibition focusing on education and heritage (and) 2027 will see the emergence of the future for this celebrated structure.”
Cllr Whitehead has also written to Lisa Nandy MP, Baroness Twycross and central government several times to raise the issue of the loss of the listed Scenic Railway and set up a petition to require consultation with Planning authorities before decisions to end the function of listed assets can be made.
She says she will continue to pursue answers, adding: “To have asked so many times for basic information, for attendance, for even an acknowledgement of how important this is to Margate and Thanet as a whole and to still have no transparency is beyond frustrating.
“We should not have to ask for this. We should not have to make approaches to other authorities to see something that should be freely available. We should not have to hand deliver invites or beg for attendance. Because caring for a listed asset is a public responsibility, and one that has to be approached with transparency and a willingness to have difficult discussions when necessary.
“I should not have to fight to receive documents that are nothing other than black, blocked out text; and we should expect far more from the custodians of a listed asset.”
The petition can be found at: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/766872
‘Exempt under the FOIA’
A NLHF spokesperson said: “We understand the frustration felt by some members of the community and have always sought to be transparent about our funding and our ongoing discussions about how different options can be taken forward safely.
“We abide by the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA) and the Information Commissioner’s guidance and in this, it is very clear what can and cannot be disclosed as part of this process. Any information that is withheld is due to it being exempt under the FOIA, which includes any information which is considered legally privileged or provided in confidence.
“The Heritage Fund is committed to continuing to work with Dreamland Margate to look at future possibilities for this important heritage asset.”
Emails, also released under FOI, reveal Dreamland CEO told council officers prior to the Scenic retirement announcement: “We will not be going into any details around the reason why the ride will no longer operate and will focus our comms on future uses.”
Some £18m was awarded from bodies including the council, the National Lottery Heritage Fund, Coastal Communities Fund, and Sea Change for restoring historic rides and the Scenic Railway prior to the park’s first reopening launch in 2015.
In 2020/ 2021 Thanet council sold the Dreamland freehold to operator Sands Heritage Ltd for £7million. This was inclusive of Dreamland park, cinema, scenic railway, rides and intellectual property, at £2.3million and the former council owned car park for £4.7m.
At that time it was confirmed that conditions were attached to the sale to ensure that the listed heritage structures are protected and a restrictive covenant is in place to control future use of the site and retain this for leisure, in line with planning policy.
In December 2023 Sands Heritage was taken over in a majority stakehold by LN Gaiety Holdings, a subsidiary of concert and festival giant Live Nation.
TDC are desperately trying (and failing) to claw back a little credibility after getting us into this situation in the first place. As for Ms. Whitehead writing her usual long-winded letters to Lisa Nandy MP, Baroness Twycross and central government, I’m sure they have far more pressing problems than a failing seaside funfair and an embarrassingly incompetent council.
Whitehead would be better off trying get the bins sorted out in Thanet as a priority
Is it a slow building month for little Ms Narcissist, or is this her way of making it about the possibility of building on there too?!.
Well, it’s definitely not a slow month (or even day) for weird misogyny.
Instead of just making everything about you, try reigning in your huge ego and actually discuss people’s concerns: things such as (a) the continuing filth on the streets caused by your colleagues’ incompetance, (b) the fact that water companies (rightly) want a say in large planning developments in Kent, and (c) your mate Polly going quiet on the Minster marshes since she got a job that contradicts her opposition to the project.
Completely agree. If Helen seriously thinks this is one of the most important issues on local residents’ minds then she is quite wrong. I’m sure the thousands of local residents’ whose waste and recycling collections have fallen into complete chaos would rather she spent all available energy and time resolving these.
It stinks near my home, thanks to bins in 30c heat now being emptied (if we’re luck) fortnightly. She’ll probably just blame government rules though, conveniently forgetting that she’s in the same party.
You seem to have missed me tackling pretty much everything; or have chosen to ignore it. For a change.
No you haven’t. You’ve just waffled around issues and made it about you being a “victim”. As you’re doing yet again right now. It seems that everyone is being “unpleasant” if they ask difficult and awkward questions.
I think you’ll find that it’s you that tries desperately to make everything about me, in a wholly negative and unpleasant way.
Which is weird.
Maybe stop?
Live Nation short on firewood…
Utterly surprising to see Live Nation being absolute turds, they usually have such a great reputation everywhere lol.
Dreamland gigs are a bad vibe anyway, loads of better venues to catch music at and other fairgrounds with rides faster than a kiddies pushbike.
Business is business.
Unless it is a matter of the population’s health, security or, national economic wellbeing, it is no business of any level of government. T.D.C. sold the site. It’s none of its business anymore.
“Commercially Sensitive” is a confidentiality marking akin to “Top Secret” under The Acts.
Socialists are so ignorant!
Keep on pressing Ms whitehead, this used to be a really good attraction in dreamland and families love it from way back.
A good attraction to dreamland and Margate, it must be restored and enjoy it by families specially during this holiday period.
Thank you for rising this issue because is about communities together.
It is Ms. Whitehead’s council that got us into this situation in the first place. Something she won’t even admit.
I note that the railway is listed, What for. :- Lack of original materials.? 2nd grade timbre to keep costs down. ? Poor workmanship. ? Lack of supervision. ? Lack of inspections by TDC. ? Lack of concern by TDC for public money being spent on this folly. ?
Some Kent residents complained about RiverOak receiving public money from KCC Why what is the difference between both projects.
Take the matter to court, Im sure as deputy she help arrange that.
They won’t, as TDC would imo stand a very good chance of losing. And what if Live Nation decided to stop putting on concerts? Margate would be left with a near-empty, run-down fun fair (again), with certain people wanting to build there. Ms. Whitehead knows they’re basically f-cked, but won’t admit it, probably not even to herself.
Live Nation’s lawyers could bankrupt Thanet with barely a blink.
Thanet Council are bankrupting themselves with barely a blink. They don’t need Live Nation’s help !
And STILL managing to make everything about me.
Yes, Helem.
I think that you need to familiarise yourself with The Law regarding “Transfers of Undertakings” when it comes to property transactions. Particularly when the original buyer sells on the property. Not to mention that regarding the preservation of historic architecture. Only the structure must be preserved. Nothing more.
T.D.C. has no grounds for any sort of legal action against the Live Nation group. Methinks it’s simply a distraction from the Authority’s impotence in dealing with Freshwater/Daejan several doors down!
“…We believe the council’s actions have given Dreamland the best possible chance to be central to Margate’s future, as well as a much loved part of its past…”
Rick Everitt, December 2020
Indeed!
https://theisleofthanetnews.com/2020/12/21/dreamland-sold-to-park-operators-sands-heritage-limited/
You would probably get less redacted papers putting in a FOI request to the MOD for UFO files, than getting anything worthwhile from this shower.
So you are all lawyers now are you? I can see some of you are misogynists,that’s been apparent for some time.
Sure TDC are useless,but the die was cast before Rick Everitt had his hands on the tiller, so he was merely commentating on a fait accompli.
The context was a publicly owned site was handed over to the private sector, public funds were subscribed to the project, and now what is left is a monument to current British business ethics, which are opaque, unaccountable, and rely on cringeworthy propaganda to sustain a fiction of community understanding.
Yes, Peter, there are other things more important, but those living on Margate want to see something better.
This is why coastal communities vote in populist vecause they are passed off from seeing their town ransacked for profit.
While this disaster is running its course, another piece of private enterprise is doing its own thing with Arlington House nearby.
I suspect that even Margate cares more about rubbish strewn everywhere and fields being concreted over. As for Dreamland, the average punter having a pint in Wetherspoons could’ve warned TDC how foolhardy they were/are. The one saving grace is that none of TDC will be in power when they finally apply for planning permission to build a housing estate.
Absolutely amazing councillors are doing this in their own time and £self-funding. I think someone has a Bee in their bonnet and is overreacting. Anyway, as TDC revenue reserves are close to scraping the bottom of barrel. Very noble of councillors not to engage our public funds in a spat Which can escalate rather rapdily.
Anyway, Dreamland has, I think, 5 or 6 years left on the TDC restrictive covenant. Then it can be housing, can be anything. Everyone can see the slow build-up.
TDC has only 2 years, fortunately. So (hopefully) we won’t have Ms. Whitehead crowing about building “accesible social” housing on the site.
I normally criticise councillor Helen Whitehead, but on this occasion I fully support her attempts to have vision of the information. I hope the scenic is returned to operational activity. Keep on going Helen and ignore the detractors.
It’s all smoke and mirrors, trying to hide the fact that TDC got us into this fix in the first place. She “complain” about house building next!
But was the NLHF funding not provided when tdc were the park freeholders? And as such if they had any legal right to see the paperwork they’d have had it at the time. It’s all a mess, tdc won’t sustain anything they don’t need to , live nation are no more likely to. The railway is a pointless relic, as a standalone heritage ride it has no real value. Will never earn it’s keep, never be an attraction in itself and be a nightmare to maintain to required health and safety standards.
Did tdc make it a condition of sale that the ride be maintained as a working item innthe sale?
It’s all farce.
Yes,TDC did get themselves into this fix, but that does not excuse the behaviour of Dreamland.
In this case nostalgia has consequences. The public feeling was to revive the past.The past is the past for good reason. How anybody could believe an old amusement park could serve current tastes is beyond me.but they did, and this is the result.Of course Dreamland is not alone in its belief in revival, I coukd think of somewhere else that will probably go the same way.
Still a chance we could see the return of cholera though, it’s not all bad news.
All been downhill since World War 1, that was the last time TDC were an effective organisation.
All seems a bit odd, TDC have let Winter Gardens , Theatre Royal, Tudor House, Museum, The pier clockhouse in ramsgate, northdown house, and no doubt many more , decline and decay over the years whilst they owned them. Where is the councils outcry over their demise?
Then TDC had significant interest and control over Dreamland and would have drawn up the contract of sale , where were all the protections in the sales agreement? Plus there must surely be a record of all the discussions and requirements of the funding that was provided to tdc before the sale, has the lottery given more since the sale?
As for the claims about rotting wood, the council were quick to condem and demolish the playground in cliftonville on similar grounds when it suited to do so to be able to use other grant funding for a new playground.
Kettles and pots spring to mind.
That the railway is considered unsafe to be run as a ride is very different from maintaining it as an ornament, with no health and safety requirements as a ride , it’ll probably be quite structually safe for a few decades with an occasional bit of creosote.
Really is a storm in a teacup
Oh! There has been plenty of complaints about all of those sites.
At the e d of the day it is all about money.
What our legal experts and dreary misogynists fail to recognise is that TDC like every other council has been hollowed out since 2010, when government funding was cut completely, leaving councils like TDC to struggle on wuth very low tax bases. In the West, Sevenoaks etc have not been as affected, because their tax bases are high.
That said TDC are often complacent short terminus who have persistently run down their estate portfolio.
Unlike Checksfield I have seen them up close, and in my view they do deserve all the brick bats they receive. Helen and Rick,are trying their best, with a very poor hand.I do hope that the upper echelon of SMT are not employed by the new Unitary, because it will be dead in the water before it starts. Lower down the paygrade there are some contentious, efficient staff, but they get swamped by the office politicians amongst the nomenclatura.
“Unlike Checksfield I have seen them up close, and in my view they do deserve all the brick bats they receive”
Glad we’re in agreement here!
Of course it’s all about money, this current administration has chosen to spend 1.3 million paying the council tax of some households on bemefits. This is’nt a statutory duty but choice. To then critocose the choices of another organisation for the way it’s maintaining heritage assets seems a tad odd when tdc are knowingly diverting cash it could use to save it’s heritage assets to instead pay peoples council tax.
Dreamland are choosing to run a business not a charity, the fuss over the scenic railway is a joke, given the manner in which tdc has allowed its assets to rot. At least be a bit logical in their complaints and base this on their own actions.
How about a group being born solely to keep the scenic railway going. They can use public funding that Dreamland was given to look after it and use volunteers and technicians. It will be good for Margate and even Dreamland would benefit through higher attendances.
Failing that then TDC should remove licences for the noisy music events that disturb residents across Margate and beyond.
(a) I doubt if they could legally remove licenses simply because a company refuses to run a roller coaster that they claim is unsafe, and (b) If they did, what would happen to the site? Housing!
IT WAS IN SAFE HANDS -WHEN BEMBOM BROTHERS WERE IN CHARGE IN THE 80S AND MID 90s. Till IT WAS SOLD TO A JIMMY GODDERN. WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THAT.
Bless up Jimmy Goddwn, may his flame burn for all eternity.
Upon further digging, TDC announced in a press release in December 2020…..”Conditions are attached to the sale to ensure that the listed heritage structures are protected”
So isn’t it the case that these conditions attached to the sale just weren’t strong enough or well thought through ? Surely if these conditions made it absolutely imperative that the scenic railway would remain operational at the purchasers’ cost then Dreamland (and now Live Nation) would be in a much weaker position.
Perhaps I’ll FOI the Council for a copy of the original sale agreement. In the interests of transparency as Helen pontificates I wouldn’t expect any of this to be redacted or refused and to be released in its entirety? If not that would be double standards wouldn’t it ?
Notice how Ms. Whitehead always disappears once people ask awkward questions (or in her view, are “being unpleasant”)? Perhaps Mr. Oxymoron (aka Bright) can come on here?
I’ve now sent a FOI to TDC asking for the entire, unredacted sale agreement so I can check which clauses were put in by TDC around the continued operation of the scenic railway.
Given their new found commitment to transparency I expect to receive the whole sale contract without any missing parts.
Let us (or better still, Kathy!) know how you get on.
Peter, you are absolutely right. Helen Whitehead knew about the situation at Dreamland months before the press release, as Cllr Rob Yates raised it at council when he switched parties.
Helen Whitehead’s party also needs to answer for why the Scenic Railway was left without adequate protection when Dreamland was sold. Those decisions have consequences, and we are now seeing them play out.
I, for one, applaud you, Peter, for calling Helen out. In my opinion, she is increasingly showing her true colours, and what I consider to be narcissistic behaviour is becoming more apparent. She seems constantly to accuse people of bullying whenever she is challenged or criticised, something we have seen repeatedly throughout her political career.
People are fed up with it. Elected councillors should expect to be challenged and held accountable for their actions and decisions. Political criticism is not automatically bullying simply because it is uncomfortable.
The sad reality is that there will be no Thanet District Council election next year for residents to have their say at the ballot box.
I was fooled by her for a while, and should’ve went with my initial instinct. She’s not alone in forgetting that WE elected and pay for her, and that she’s there to serve US – but she’s amongst the most evasive when it comes to the questions that really effect Thanet (I’ll be accused of being unpleasant again now!). Do NOT trust her.
In recent years Dreamland only owned two attractions, the scenic railway and the big wheel, the rest were/are run by private entities. The one thing that possibly does make money is the car park which was handed over from the council to dreamland.
With regards to building on the site it is classified as a flood plain so planning permission could be difficult, it was actually a harbour before the sea wall was built.
Planning permission wouldn’t be difficult at all. Otherwise they couldn’t have built the blocks of flats on either side of it.
Peter, are you talking about the blocks of flats on Eaton road that have been condemned as the foundations are unsatisfactory?
Those + Arlington.
Edit to my post above, the big wheel does not appear to be working now, it has been static all day
I don’t think it’s worked in ages (I never use the funfair, but I go past it on trains occasionally and it’s a long time since I’ve seen it move).
It looks like Arlington house could be condemned soon, how they deal with structural issues is beyond me