A Ramsgate Town Councillor has called for an investigation into procedures at the grassroots authority following a resolution to donate to a Judicial Review bid to challenge the granting of a development order for Manston airport.
Thanet Independent group member Cllr Stuart Piper says due process was not followed in the run up to the meeting to discuss the issue and Standing Orders were “manipulated.”
In July Ramsgate Town Councillors voted to contribute £5000 – and up to £10,000 if needed -towards the Judicial Review application against the government decision to grant a development consent order on Manston airport. The DCO enables the site to be used as a cargo freight hub.
An Extraordinary meeting of the council took place on July 21 to hear the resolution proposing the donation which was put forward by Cllr David Green.
A recorded vote showed the majority of councillors, who say they had campaigned for election on a platform of opposing the freight hub plans, in favour of making the contribution with Cllrs Lynda and Stuart Piper, Cllr George Rusiecki against the proposal and Cllr Wing abstaining from the vote.
But Cllr Piper, who is in favour of the airport development, says information about the resolution should have been published earlier.
He says the procedure is “Standing Orders, 9.2…’The Clerk shall insert in the summons for every meeting, all notices of motion or recommendation properly given in the order in which they have been received…’
Town clerk Richard Styles, whose role is non-political, has refuted this claim and says the points made “do not hold water.”
Cllr Piper said: “I am calling for an independent investigation into procedural matters at Ramsgate Town Council. There are occasions when due process is not being followed and matters are being railroaded through without accurate management or governance.
“I believe there is evidence that the Standing Orders for the council are being manipulated to achieve outcomes rather than followed to ensure open, honest and transparent governance.
“Recently certain elected members of the council took part in what I have described as a raid on public money. They were assisted by the Town Clerk who I believe did not ensure Standing Orders were correctly followed.
“A resolution was submitted requesting that RTC provide up to £10,000 of public money to support a Judicial Review into the decision to grant permission for a Development Consent Order (DCO) for Manston Airport.
“I believe the process that followed was flawed and that actions were taken to withhold pertinent information from certain elected members as well as the public.”
Cllr Piper says he has written to the town council clerk to ask why details of the resolution were not published until the afternoon before the meeting despite being submitted almost a week earlier and who made that decision.
He is now calling for an independent investigation into the matter.
Town clerk Richard Styles said Cllr Piper has been invited to follow the complaints process. He added: “Cllr Rev Piper has made a number of allegations which I have answered in some detail. He does not accept those answers and prefers to repeat them continuously in the hope, and presumably the expectation, that RTC will give an answer he does like.
“His points do not hold water and he makes allegations without providing evidence to substantiate them. He has been offered an independent complaints procedure in two options by myself and the Chairman, Cllr Campbell.”
A Judicial Review would look at whether the Government followed correct procedure in reaching the decision to approve the DCO for RiverOak Strategic Partners.
Solicitors Kate Harrison and Susan Ring of Harrison Grant have agreed to act and are instructing barristers Richard Wald QC and Gethin Thomas in the action.
An application for Judicial Review has been submitted following the rejection of a pre-action letter. Responses to the submission have now been lodged by RSP and the government.
The decision on a development consent order for the Manston airport site was announced on July 9 after delays in January and May.
The Department of Transport approved the application to create an air freight hub at the site. The Examining Authority panel of Martin Broderick, Jonathan Hockley, Kelvin MacDonald and Jonathan Manning had recommended that development consent should not be granted.
Jenny Dawes, who launched the crowdjustice appeal, says her action is due to the decision being made against the examining panel’s advice. The fundraiser has received 1,114 pledges for £78,870 of a £100,000 stretch target. The fundraiser has 30 days left to run.
Ramsgate Town Council’s role is to protect and improve the town of Ramsgate. I am pleased that the majority of councillors, following their electorates’ wishes, chose to support the JR. Stuart Piper does not represent the majority of Ramsgate residents in continuing to support this new airport proposal which will be extremely damaging to the town. Can I suggest he follows the advice of most of the airport supporters, one of which told me to do so last week. Offensive, isn’t it?
Damaging to the town? Have you been to ramsgate Town recently? A town full of no opportunity that desperately needs this to happen. But people like you try to hold every good thing that happens to this place. I suspect you are past the age where you need opportunities
There are better, far less damaging ways of encouraging employers to Thanet than by supporting the building of a cargo airport just outside Ramsgate.
A lot more light industry on the port, for example.
Ramsgate was in a much better place when the airport and ferry terminals were up and running. They create jobs and business opportunities, and when will people wake up and realise that if you buy a house near an airport, there will be noise!! The airport dates back to early 1900’s. We need to ensure that we move forwards not backwards. How many of these protesters use airports to go on holiday!!!
I have only been on two journeys which involved flying there and back. That was 40 years ago. I don’t suppose I’m the only one who has seldom, if ever, flown.
Typo in my comment: Can I suggest he follows the advice of most of the airport supporters, which is to move if he doesn’t like it, one of which told me to do so last week.
They’re always saying that.It’s predictable, as well as offensive.
And so the reputation of Thanet deteriorates even further. Possibly what we see in the press is just the tip of the iceberg for not only Ramsgate but Thanet District Council plus town and parish councils as a whole.
Yet again we read more evidence of bullying not only by senior managers but by councillors. Perhaps a Government review of the workings off Thanet, Town & Parish councils should be undertaken before the next set of elections.
Hear hear! High time the whole district and it’s council’s attitudes, needs examining by an independent body.
I cannot find a copy of Ramsgate Town Councils mission or role statement that is quoted, can anyone help me. It so easy to write a statement without at least cross referencing the facts so folk can check and make an informed decision rather than just blindly following what is said in these comments comments.
This was reported in the IOTN over a year ago. Have a look at the archives
whats ITON mean and where can I find it
Isle of Thanet News, you know the site you have been commenting on
In good English an abbreviation is written in full when it is first used in correspondence- that is what I was after, just correct communication rules rather than local dialects or understanding. I now understand what I was trying to talk to . Sorry I am off. I was more interested in peoples perspectives and the way they processed information. I have my answers!
In good comprehension people should know which site they are commenting on
I have used the council web site nothing there and have tried to contact RTC this the reply I get this email is not monitored*** so RTC don’t even watch or answer their emails> All I want to know is RTC’s ‘raison d’être’ in a simple statement. Easy unless there is some purposeful confusion so the folk of Ramsgate are led astray
Ramsgate is lucky to have RTC and their focus on the wellbeing of all Ramsgate not just plane spotters.
I suspect Councillor Piper is trying to subvert democracy and/or throwing his toys out of his pram.
What a bias group of old guys with no care for the opportunity of young people in the area. That spend money on pointless reviews when their town is in a state. Yeah we really need them
I look forward to you standing for office yourself.
If you lot don’t like ramsgate I was born and bread here and we have not been asked anything about the council spending our money on something most of ramsgate and the shrouding people want and that is an airport,like we have said if you don’t like it move and as for the council they won’t be there much longer anyway
Oh do stop this “don’t like it-move” stuff! It’s so rude and boring.
Marva Rees, I think K Parish may be right about.I think small airports are far better for local prosperity.For people who need to fly for business, trying to use the awful airports of London is a real struggle.There is always a worry about missing a flight.This weekend for instance, parts of the M4 was shut meaning a tortuous detour of an hour. Flights to the USA were so much easier with KLMs service from Manston to Schiphol and then on to wherever in the world.I think there has been a lot of hysteria over the reopening of Manston which will never be a dirty big airport.I even think there is a romance to a small airport at Manston
You do realise Born & Bred confers no additional rights don’t you
Perhaps K Parish means that those born and bred here have a superior emotional understanding and passion for Thanet which I hope will never become a twee place for the naff escapees from other areas.
As proven time and time again, the majority of Thanet want the airport to reopen. To bring much needed proper paid secure employment most will ge glad to see the farce that is the judicial review thrown out.
Kapo, can you supply the evidence for your claim? as far as I know there has been no referendum or comprehensive survey of the local population regarding the proposed cargo hub.
The SOS’s decision certainly wasn’t based on facts, but the advice of the planning inspectorate was.
The SOS-Grant Shapps, Roger Gale MP, Craig Mackinlay MP, and of course Tony Freudmann RSP all have one thing in common, they are connected together with aviation. Two plane owning, one president of the APPG on general aviation and one desperate to rekindle his failing career with an airport.
It is no wonder why Mr Shapps ignored the professional advice of the government Planning Inspectorate in his final say. This was planned through their secret meetings. Go through all the expensive procedures knowing he would override the decision made. I would just like to know who is paying for all this besides the Country? and who is making money out of all this ripping off the country?
And where is your evidence of these ‘secret’ meetings?. Not very secret if you know about them are they?. The money paying for Manston’s redevelopment is all private investment, no risk to the taxpayer at all.
The decision by SOS Grant Shapps to overturn the Planning Inspectorate’s recommendations on the evidence supplied was almost definitely preplanned.
All those involved in favour – Grant Shapps, Roger Gale MP, Craig Mackinlay MP along with the RSP spokesperson Tony Freudmann all have one thing in common which is aviation, two of them having their own aeroplanes, one being the president of the government’s APPG on General Aviation, and the other wanting his failed airport back once again.
It is very clear in the not so secret meetings and Gales incessant tv news interviews giving away snippets that they were just dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s. Gale was adamant in his prediction telling that the DCO would be accepted. I would like to know how much this has cost the country with Mr shapps ignoring the overwhelming evidence given him through the governments own Planning Inspectorate who had put it all the evidence together and came up with the careful result that this project is not an NSIP at all and so the DCO should be refused?
Mr Shapps apparently washing his hands of announcing his decision by giving to a junior minister to speak up. How much did this odd but under the circumstances expected decision cost the UK and will continue to cost it for years to come?
If it has been proven again and again where is the multiple instances of proof. There isn’t because it it not true.
Just following the first statement on the majority of the people of Great Britain voted for the government that initiated the DCO so that must represent the wishes of the majority of voters of GB not just Ramsgate, if you get my drift this could go on for ever. Lawyers will no doubt make a lot of money from this defending both sides. So what is in this for Ramsgate, stagnation- I have no particular axe to grind as long as something happens say in the next decade.
The interesting thing is that the government’s inspectors, on assessing all the evidence, recommended that the DCO should not go ahead. Overturning that expert analysis was a political decision and not one that has any evidential support. I can only imagine what back room dealings went on in order to feather the nests of MPs – I’m sorry that should read – to subvert the Inspectorate’s evidence-based decision.
I really don’t follow the logic in your first sentence,
This (4.59) is a reply to Jack.
Just that some are using the last council election results to justify the spending of Ramsgate’s limited cash, ie people voted for them; however more people voted for Craig Mackinlay MP and he supported Manston .So my point is folk rationalise use evidence that supports their point of view. Which is why the two sides are becoming more aggressing in insular.
Craig Mackinlay didn’t stand in the local council elections. Most of our current councillors don’t want an airport and that is partly why people voted for them.
Jack you do realise a Parliamentary constituency covers much more people that a Parish council.
Try comparing like for like
Surveys are run by supporters and they ask supporters.
The polls I’ve seen submitted to the DCO are full of confirmation bias and are not professional grade surveys which would stand up to any scrutiny.
Irrelevant of this, Manston isn’t a popularity or sentiment competition.
Stone Hill Park weren’t supporters of the airport, but even their own poll showed a majority wanting the airport!!!!!!
What a surprise Cllr Piper throwing his toys out of the pram. Does he not like how democracy works? The cllrs stance on Manston was up for election. Those elected members held a meeting and voted to support the JR. If he doesn’t like it, do what SMA advise and move!
I always love reading comments from Richard Styles. Anyone would think he is in charge of Ramsgate Town Council rather than their unelected clerk.
It’s pretty obvious the tail wags the dog there and I’m amazed the Councillors put up with it.
Richard Styles where can I find a copy of Ramsgate Town Councils mission or role statement that is quoted, many thanks
Why is it “Anti’s” are called trolls for having an opinion. Typical SMA response on social media. They really have no idea how to debate.
Yes, I agree providing residents in Ramsgate, and especially those living the CT11 postal code area, who will have their lives wrecked with low flying cargo aircraft approaching over the Harbour at just 300 meters high, 250 meters over the town, and 200 meters behind ASDA, and Ellington Park, and 150 meters over St Lawrence, and just 100 meters high over the Nethercourt estate before touchdown! Cllr Piper lives on the Newington estate, sufficiently far enough away to not to be too bothered by the shrieking of 4 engined polluting elderly cargo planes two or more an hour! Why does he not care about the 30,000 people living in the Ramsgate CT11 area who will have their lives, and livelihoods wrecked, just to enrich an American Hedge Fund company, the same goes for the two Thanet Tory MP’s neither of whom even live in Thanet!
The JR isn’t about whether you or anyone else will be adversely affected by a re-opening of Manston Airport. The opportunity to make your point in that respect is long gone.
The JR (as Cllr Piper is at pains to point out) is about the process. Was the SoS acting lawfully in disregarding the panel of planning experts and overturning their recommendation?
Their lives ruined?……………..get a life and stop being so melodramatic. They won’t be smelly old cargo planes, this is the 21st century, I imagine you expect to see a coal powered airplane landing every 10 seconds day & night. The investment the airport will bring into Thanet will provide jobs and apprenticeship opportunities to what is currently an economically deprived area. If you want pollution to moan about take a look at all those massive cargo ships plowing up and down the channel every day, 24-7 and look at how much they pollute compared to an aircraft. Thanet needs investment and I don’t see RTC, TDC or anyone else doing anything much about it at the moment, apart from wasting £10k of taxpayers money that is. The JD will only look at the procedural side of the DCO application, not whether the decision made by Govt was correct or not..
Oh! The irony.
Cllr Piper objects to an independent Judicial Review to see if the SoS was lawful in his activities.
So Cllr Piper has called for …. an independent review!
It is very clear that Cllr Piper has a bunch of sour grapes. There was a vote and the majority voted for the offer to support the legal matter. If it had been voted down the other way then would Cllr Piper still be complaining? No of course not! Some people hope that by shouting loud enough it will change the state of play.
This article is about abuse of Council procedure. It is not about whether or not there should be a JR. Members were kept in the dark and thus prevented from engaging with any meaningful discussions with residents because The Town Clerk and Chairman withheld the details of the resolution. It is obvious that the rules were bent and pretty obvious why they were bent.
The whole decision proceedure has been bent. A very long and evidence based inspection came back with an overwhelming decision by The Planning Inspectorate but the guys at the SOS’s ministry said yes anyway. Why bother to have this expensive farce in place when Shapps has a final say. He would agree when he is in cohoots with his aviation buddies. What a waste of money this is to the UK.
Stuart your arguing over the details is all you have left
No matter how it was run you are outvoted in RTC and you know it
Mr Piper says “Members were kept in the dark and thus prevented from engaging with any meaningful discussions“.
Is he talking about the community engagement events by RSP?
But there has been an election and the result has been anounced. This is how they came up with the vote to support the JR
Regardless of the merits or otherwise in calling for a Judicial Review into the Granting of the DCO, the procedure is there.
What Cllr Rev Stuart Piper is drawing attention to, is the manner in which Ramsgate Town Council, have arranged, and conducted a meeting, to use Public Funds ….
Having watched that meeting live, I was stunned by the way it was conducted….
Even Cllr Winnie Wing, a well known anti Airport activist refused to support the motion, by abstaining from the vote…
It was patently obvious to anyone watching, that it was completely predetermined , with collusion between the Chairman, the Town Clerk and their inner circle of cronies…
Cllr Piper is absolutely right in requesting that this is properly investigated…
Public funds have been squandered , by a body that is mandated to protecting, and using those funds legally and prudently…
The Crowd Fundraising by Mrs Dawes was what was….a request for donations towards the JR, … RTC should not have used public monies for this purpose…
They are entitled to debate the JR, and even make private donations, but it’s unconstitutional to use public monies in this manner…
At last a more balanced comment. I was also against the use of RTC money for this. It has nothing to do with whether I am pro or anti airport.
“Completely undemocratic…” How so?
A bunch of people put themselves forward to be Ramsgate Town Councillors.
They made it clear that they were against RSP’s plans.
A majority of them was voted in.
You can hardly hold them to task because they’re doing what they said they’d do if voted in.
Anyway, with it without RTC’s contribution a vast amount of money has been raised to fund the JR.
And I have no doubt whatsoever that, should it become necessary, much more would be raised.
Liam Coyle- Why don’t you use full stops instead of those old-fashioned style dots?
That is the reason that I asked for it to be investigated shortly after they made the offer of the £5000 / £10,000. To the judicial review.
The noticed of the meeting was also not made public in the correct time scale. I suggest it was all planned behind closed doors long before the meeting and Jenny Dawes was part of those behind closed doors meetings. We were told “200 members of public were present” . I have been told there is a investigation going on in the background following my original complaint. I’m sure heads will roll in due course.
They have not squandered any monies at all though as the JR balance quickly rose above the intended limit to which they would donate something.
This is all in vain.
The fact that ramsgate town councillors have been running about like headless chickens giving out flyers to to try drum up support against the airport shows the desperation they have to try and justify their illicit actions.
Town councils have no legal right to oppose planning applications. Jenny Dawes has fired the bullets that were made by Ramsgate councillors. That’s why £10,000 of taxpayers money has been wasted. The whole this stinks.
“Town councils have no legal right…”. But are Town Councils *forbidden * to oppose planning applications?
Clearly not. From time to time councils put their own planning applications in, and they’re subject to as much scrutiny as anyone else’s.
And just look at the councils that opposed Heathrow 3. Amongst several Local Authorities notably no less than the London Assembly.
Bill, if you think it stinks, does it stink more or less than Grant Shapp’s decision to ignore the planning inspectorate’s advice?
Mark your word. It’s not rocket science a blind man can see that those who want Manston airport to reopen is the vast majority of residents. You only have to see that from those who have been silly enough to give to the review. Those that use climate change and environmental objections are con artist like those in Ramsgate Town Council.
You have mentioned rocket science. Now proper science is based on empirical evidence so please do feel free to provide some factual evidence of this support for a cargo hub that you speak of. In other words, tell us what plebiscite was conducted that tells us ‘the vast majority of residents’ want a cargo hub?
But it doesn’t actually matter if the residents want it or not. And Shapps has rejected the planning inspectorate’s advice -why?
This childish tantrum throwing just doesn’t stop does it.
RTC chooses where to spend its funds, based on votes by that Council. I don’t hear any of you shouting about where else RTC spends its funds because you don’t care about that. All you care about is landing a plane over my house at 300 feet every 15 minutes and I’ll object to this all the way, in all ways I can and one of those ways is by supporting the JR.
Anyone who lived under the flight path in the past is living in the past. The DCO isn’t a handful of flights a week, it is a flight every 15 minutes full of cargo. I also don’t care what it was like when anyone lived under the old flight path. I couldn’t give a hoot.
Residents of Ramsgate, and wider, are now having a voice. We’re sick and tired of biased decisions made by bloke MPs who are mates with other blokes who own an airline/airplane and we’re sick of some local politicians doing the hokey cokey with their political leanings based on their desire to steamroller pet projects.
Well said Emmeline!
So if you don’t want an airport what do you want nice big housing estate? maybe could send off to get the whole of Planet Thanet classed as one City.
However you haven’t looked at the housing allocations in the Local Plan have you?
And for the millionth time, it isn’t something based on biased polls.
It isn’t based on what the residents what.
It is based on evidence, viability, national need.
Manston is none of those things.
To all those that are backing this review, don’t forget that if you get your way you have 2 things that you must explain to the unemployed in Thanet. First is explaining why you have spent public money on one of your pet projects and secondly why you have ensured that the unemployed of Thanet will have absolutely no chance after having killed off the opportunities of good well paid jobs which would be created by Manston flying once again. The residents of Ramsgate have long memories!
Mr Liston 144 people were employed at Manston when it shut. There is no evidence to show it can be changed.
What you have is promises from a struck of Solicitor
who do you believe 4 planning inspectors or a struck off solicitor making promises?
Answers on a postage stamp
How do you know it won’t change without developing the airport? past owners have never developed Manston the kiwi owners made Bravo Apron a bit bigger but that was it, no big hangar so that no MRO could take place? If you had an B744 on Echo nothing could get past it, it’s time to bring the airport into the 21st Century not leave it the state it is which is 20th century. But also if you think it will fail why are you so worried about it plus not your money being spent?
oh dear. You have to have customers to pay the bills. £300M is rather a big bill. Where will these customers come from and what is Manston’s Unique Selling Point that makes is better than the East Midlands or Stanstead airports?
Mike, could you let us know if anyone has asked the unemployed in Thanet whether they want to work in a deafening, lung harming, zero-hours-minimum wage job?
Its about time someone stood up to the whitewash that is Ramsgate town council. My understanding of a vote was that is you had a vested interested in the topic under consideration you were not able to give an objective response and in that case should be excluded from the vote.
It was clear several members had private agendas regards the refusal of a venture that would provide a much needed boost to our economy and future generations, by the way it was passed through in record time while other issues lag on for months.
“a venture that would provide a much needed boost to our economy and future generations”
not what the planning Inspector said.
And every flight brings work for local residents.
60 years ago Ramsgate was the Blackpool lights of the South until the NIMBY”s closed them down and they are still trying to block solid work for Thanet people.
How long do we have to put up with forcing young people who want careers to leave Thanet at 18 or 21 and only return to live here when they retire?
It is a deprived area because our elected representatives want it to be whilst making what they think are dramatic gestures but just ensuring job’s and careers are stopped dead.
RSP have said that the cargo hub airport they claim to want will mostly be automated.
Does not matter if your anti-airport or pro-airport, those who came up with the idea of supporting the Judicial Review financially with up to £10,000 of our Council Tax money, to waste (yes waste) Council Tax payers money in a way, which could bankrupt RTC if found to be a co-sponsor of the Judicial Review, as one of the main financial contributors to the JR and then to be expected and bound by law, to pay the legal costs of RiverOak and their lawyers, and they are the top of their game and do not come cheap.
So when this does go pear shaped, expect some very large increases in future Council Tax demands. there will be those picking at this, but facts are facts, this could cost Ramsgate residents a fair whack!
The regulations about “co sponsors” are not yet law. The only person who would get clobbered were the JR to fail is Jenny Dawes. And, under the Aarhus convention, that would be limited.
This nonsense about all those who donated to the JR fund being jointly liable is obfuscation by Cllr Piper. It simply isn’t true.
I don’t want more drugs crime and pedophiles coming in to ramsgate I want jobs so says the hound of justice from hell
Your trolling isn’t working
Sorry that was not me this time ha ha ha god help us try again.
you would say that
Since the airport closed, unemployment has fallen year on year, and tourism is a major part of our economy.
Let’s boost tourism and its positive effect on jobs for young people by doing everything we can to stop the airport. It since it closed that things got better.
Just remember that SHP had a great scheme that would have brought really good hi-tech jobs to Thanet. But that hope was scuppered by the then UKIP TDC.
Andrew, so the Nimby”s still March on destroying all hope for our young people.
There are other ways to attract jobs into this area. Light industry on the port for instance.
The airport closed.
How will opening a highly automated cargo hub (even the control tower will be remote) bring jobs and prosperity to Thanet?
Instead of supporting an airport that will destroy Ramsgate, and provide practically no jobs whatever lies RSP come up with, why don’t you pro-airport lot put as much energy into actively supporting new job initiatives. Aviation is dying slowly, climate change will reduce it to a mere shadow of it’s former self. Just like coal mining, it’s an old and failing industry. The same investment in new, clean technologies, wind, solar, electric vehicles etc would employ thousands of people, make Thanet and the UK showcases of green technology, and not blight Thanet or the planet. Come on you lot, let’s here some positive stuff. We’re not Nimbys, we’re smart enough to know that a freight airport is a dead duck and it’s distracting investment from real, job-providing industries.
What would be more popular in the town drugs crime and pedophiles or more money for our police and emergency services and an cleaner town?
What are you talking about?
Street cleaning and policing are down to TDC/KCC
Seriously Gordon if you want to troll a site can’t you think of something more “troll” like in the way of a comment.
Then to tell SMA that you are interceptor
Oh okay so you want to play that game you want to reveal yourself in the group and for my views are my own and if people don’t think I’m serious about what I say just keep watching the statistics
Hi Gordon Farmer aka Intercepter. who feels so good trolling the “Anti’s”. He loves having his ego stroked on SMA. Gordon needs to grow up and learn to debate with the adults.
So laughable that he think’s people aren’t seeing the rubbish he spouts !!
And poor Annie who thinks that 2,296 people signing an anti-judicial review petition is great when apparently ALL of Ramsgate’s population is pro-airport even though Ramsgate’s population is around 40,000 and there are people on the Save Manston group that that openly say they are signing it twice with different e-mail addresses !!
…and hi to James Bartlett reporting back to the Save Manston Airport Group !
Are you one of the people that confuse anti-airport with a anti-Riveroak? Do you still think that they are some sort of philanthropists that are in this to help Thanet? No, they are venture capitalists in it to make money whatever they do, and the return on investment certainly isn’t in airports ! Be careful what you wish for……
And hi to Danny Skeedale, the hypocrite, who hides behind many fake names on Social media.
It was me
but then your posts are so nonsensical you might have outed yourself
It could have been me?
If you believed SBH would had hi tech jobs then you deluded it would been one massive housing estate.
H’m. Let’s see. Successful team Musgrave and Cartner (Discovery Park) on the one hand, a serial failure struck off embezzling solicitor on the other.
Who do you really think is deluded?
What a hilarious mess.
I am furious with Cllr Stuart Piper and colleagues for rejecting the local plan and setting us back yet again into consultations and other democratic processes.
However, he is absolutely right to draw attention to the improper protocols used prior to and during the meeting.
It was yet another RTC shambles poorly steered by the Town Clerk who allegedly works very closely with Jenny Dawes.
Also, the fund for the JR has been excellent.
Five to ten grand to be spent on our Community Food support for the poor and vulnerable in Ramsgate would have been better spent as we head towards the second wave of Covid-19, the inevitable inflationary costs and disruption to food and other supplies due to Brexit.
Clare, you’re not Ian Driver writing under a pseudonym?
Clare I think you’ll find RTC has spent plenty more on food banks post Covid than the JR, and there’s no evidence to suggest there is impropriety going on here. This is just Cllr Piper not getting his own way and having a hissy fit. It really isn’t any more complicated than that.
I’d quite like a review for how some local councillors ousted the former UKIP lead at TDC (once he admitted Manston didn’t add up) so they could keep the burning embers of their aviation obsession alive and as you say, then poking about with the local plan so they could ringfence Manston and shove thousands of houses on the green belt in return.
If anyone should be up in arms, it is the people of Ramsgate being used whilst the boys with toys try and land their planes over our town whilst claiming that there’s no need for a public safety zone, that we’ll get used to the screaming jets over our roof at 300 feet every 15 minutes and that we should enjoy waving at the pilot and inhaling aviation pollutants.
I do agree regeneration and job creation is vital, but unemployment has declined post Manston, and those wanting to promote job opportunities why didn’t you get behind the wind farm DCO?
Emmeline, I think you’ll find your illogical assertion regarding ‘food banks’ inferring an RTC expenditure more than 5-10,000 quid, and equating that with no impropriety is quaint. Do you know what the Standing Orders are for RTC meetings?
The Town Clerk and Chair have been busted!
Emmline. You can talk about having an hissing fit for piper not getting his one way ha ha ha all the antis have been acting like children since the SOS made his decision. If I had my way I would ban the courts getting involved in any planning applications. I understand the government will be pursuing the full legal cost in section 21b of the JR. Plus RTC days and numbered
It’s not “the antis” who are acting like children. Shapps’ rejection of the inspectorate’s advice is one example of this.
Curious. I understood that the JR would be heard under the Aarus Convention, which would limit costs.
This is from the JR crowdfunding website:
“This page is about raising money to cover legal costs – for lawyers, experts and court fees – and to cover any liability for the costs of other parties should I lose.
The normal rule in legal cases is that the loser has to pay the winner’s costs. But in environmental law cases the amount a losing claimant has to pay is normally limited to £5K.
If the case is lost only the claimant is liable to pay the other side’s costs. There are government proposals to widen the list of those who could be liable to those who have given large donations, but those changes have not been brought into law”
There was a change in the law in 2017. Because the courts were getting overwhelmed with activist from all sorts of odd sounding groups trying to use the “ environment “ card to stop developments and planning applications, thinking all they had to pay was £5000 cost, some law firms have been reprimanded for misinformation about legal charges.
The £5000 cost does not cover the true cost of the court time and running cost and the groups were not entitled to legal aid. There is another law in the pipeline to clamp down further on what is considered to wasting court time on matters that could be resolved by other means.
The current government has a worrying tendency towards dictatorship.
Indeed the £5000 does not cover the true costs etc. But the Aarhus Convention recognises that some issues are so important that applicants should not necessarily be discouraged from bringing JRs simply because it’s expensive.
After the proroging debacle the far right was in a froth. Imagine, the courts impartially giving an opinion on the government’s own legislation.
A bad day it will be when politicians can make judicial decisions. Just look at the buffoon Boris and the Internal Market Bill.
If Boris doesn’t like the law it breaks it. Mr Cummings will confirm that.
Ann you’re spreading incorrect information on costs. I don’t know why you are doing so but it might be good to stop.
I’m sorry you want to remove the courts and the law from our day to day lives. Personally I’m glad they exist.
If we’re having a competition on wasted time, perhaps we should start with the UKIP TDC administration and years of time and money invested in the dead duck Manston. Alternatively, how about Pleasurama. Plan C, if you need more time wasting topics could include TDCs utter failure to agree a local plan so much so that the Government intervened.
From what I see, those of us with legitimate concerns about a noxious cargo hub nobody needs, look like we are responding logically and rationally. If RTC chooses to support any of those levers they are democratically entitled to do so, subject to their vote. Which was a yes.
Craig Mackinlay will have to wait a little longer to dust off his airline he forgot he owned.
Emmetline. I am repeating what I am being told by a barrister friend he is the same person who has told me that the women pension scandal will not succeed, and today we have been told the court has indeed thrown it out. I was a supportive of the women’s claim.
I have no reason to doubt what he is saying, he is a very successful barrister well known. So with all due respect I trust more what he says than I do from others on here.
Harrison Grant (the JR solicitors) are quite clear on the matter.
They’re not mates of mine.
So let me get this right, your mate the barrister has a view on the costs and ARHUS assessment on the JR and you think this is a factual outcome?
My mate thinks I might win the lottery, but I won’t be buying a speedboat just yet.
Cost information is published on the JR web page. Try asking your mate to have a look. With respect.
Time will tell, let’s get this right you are assuming you know it all and you know best. Wait and see the outcome.
Do you know the legal cost of today’s hearing re: pensions scandal????? No of course you don’t i do.
“Time will tell, let’s get this right you are assuming you know it all and you know best. Wait and see the outcome.”
One might direct the same comments at you, Ann.
The difference is that on the one hand you’ve got a barista friend who knows all about JR funding.. but you don’t tell us who; on the other, those supporting the JR (and opposing the airport generally) are quite clear about the sources of their information.
Ann, it’s not my opinion, it is the legal update on the JR web pages.
I don’t know best, but I can repeat facts when they’re available in the public domain. People can donate safely and anonymously to the JR without fear. They can do so here
As the governments own expert panel turned down the original plan only for the same government to ignore it, I would think its a very reasonable step to take.
Just a thought: every one of RTC’s councillors bar one attended the Extraordinary Meeting (which had been properly notified and had its agenda published). An overwhelming majority of Councillors voted in favour of the donation to the JR fund.
Would it make any difference if (as Cllr Piper claimed) 7 days notice was required?
I very much doubt it.
This is just typical of the low-class of councillors who dominate Thanet politics. Mr. Piper has a gripe. He’s been invited use the complaints procedure but prefer to cast aspersions on the internet.
The council will only ignore it and carry on.
Gordon is English comprehension not for you
Eggnog “Mr. Piper has a gripe. He’s been invited use the complaints procedure”
Rather it is Piper that is ignoring the complaints procedure and carrying on
Can I just state facts that i have been keeping an eye on and since the airport closed crime has risen year apon year and it’s been going up since this council has been in the figures don’t lie and I think that councilor piper has a right to speak up if so meting is not right with in the council I’m sure you all would speak up if your neighbour was selling drugs or something.
It has naff all to do with Piper’s grandstanding
He is also a TDC councillor so let him talk to their task force if this is more important
Maybe Piper doesn’t think it is important
RTC have no power to deal with Crime
What’s the airport closure got to do with crime statistics going up? Does this suggest that the people who lost their jobs when the airport closed have turned to crime?!
Would you post a link to your source for the crime stats, please?
The important question is: has the crime rate increased or decreased since 2014?
I see “Psycho” Gordon knew he had been outsmarted
Ooh now if I’m right about the crime statistics and I know I am please tell me who you are so I can give you more trolling than you can handle.
I think it’s time for you to put your toys away Gordon It’s now adult time
looking at your post about the legal team you need to look up LLP and at the same time look up “fee earner”
You might just learn about how the legal profession works
Whoever you are,”Gordon farmer”, grow up and stop acting like a stroppy teenager.
I think Gordon the Farmer is right the crime has been going up since the airport failed for the eight time and the 144 people who were working there all had to start stealing to survive and they needed to buy drugs and the gangs from london brixton sent gangs to do the county lines to ramsgate and they stay in the bnbs in ramsgate and thas why tourism has been going up so much so more than 300million pound income of tourism in thanet which is nothing compared with the money the marsden airport will bring and i can also write with no comas and councillor billie piper is right to complaint he coukd not disagree with the council supporting the review because money would be better spent on consultancies for tony solicitor
That’s a pretty damning summary. I ask all supporters to review this and then decide whether they hold confidence that this serial failure can actually make this work. We need better leadership for this site. In TDC’s marketing campaign nothing came back, so why are we still consigning this airfield to planes? It’s time has been and gone. Let’s find a better use for the airfield that doesn’t ruin residents’ sanity.
An excellent piece of forensic analysis.
How long before they start to build the houses?
And don’t forget the houses that were planned for Manston have already been allocated to greenfield sites elsewhere in Thanet, so that any houses built by RSP are in addition to the government mandated number. So all those who scream “airport not houses”, you’re stuffed. You’ve got the houses anyway in other parts of Thanet, and now you are likely to get even more thanks to your beloved RSP. I hope you’re feeling pleased with yourselves.
RSP supporters will tell you that when RSP bought the land from SHP, there was a covenant that said RSP couldn’t build houses there.
£3.00 fee and a few minutes on the Land Registry web site will tell you otherwise.
Cloak and mirrors, a covenant means nothing when they are all in bed together, why is no-one surprised at how quickly SHP sold up….
The problem for Stone Hill was a Tory Council, 2 Tory MP’s and a Tory Government colluding together.
You have heard of Graft well the SoS decision shows it is alive and kicking in Thanet.
Maybe it is time for Ann Gloag to pay up for that JR