A battle of wills has broken out between Thanet council and residents at Trove Court and Kennedy House with all those in the blocks’ 180 flats warned they will face enforcement action if they remove window and door restrictors while retrofit works take place.
Balcony doors have been screwed up and windows restricted to an opening of around six centimetres while the refurbishment is carried out but many residents have complained about the lack of air in their homes and some have removed the restrictors.
Thanet council has sent a text to every resident in the tower blocks saying enforcement action will be taken against anyone who removes the restrictions or prevents them being fitted.
Tenants have been told they will be issued with a community protection warning if they persist.
A Community Protection Warning (CPW) is a formal written warning that precedes a Community Protection Notice (CPN) and can be issued for persistent and unreasonable anti-social behaviour that negatively impacts the community. If the CPN is issued, failure to comply is an offence and may result in a fine or a fixed penalty notice.
But one resident says it is ‘peaceful protest’ that is not covered by a CPW and tenants will continue to pop the restricting brackets off the windows, with many saying they suffer health conditions and need air in their homes.
It’s understood Thanet council has so far made allowances for 12 residents with restrictors that let the windows open to 10cm rather than 6cm.
Tenants say legal action can’t be taken against all 180 flat residents and they will carry on protesting about ‘being sealed in.’
One added: “They can’t give out protection warnings or notices for protesting.”
Another tenant said they had been threatened with eviction. They said: “Many people have either removed the restrictions or they have simply fallen off.
“They have completely disregarded health issues. I am a good tenant and have been for (several) years now.
“I was deemed exempt from being restricted but with no written warning or any notice they sneakily restricted my window. I’ve been told if I remove it they’ll have to take legal action against me.
“As far as I’m aware they have to write to people giving written notice in advance but there was none, there’s nothing in my tenancy agreement about it either or in the newsletter we get monthly.
“I feel like the council has breached something and they don’t care about people like me with health conditions. They can’t possibly evict people because of this. I’m scared.
“This whole thing has had a massive detrimental effect on my mental health. I’m constantly on edge and can’t relax at all during the week.”
Some residents have taken to a Facebook group to post tips on how to remove the brackets and air their frustration at the situation, saying there will be damp and mould issues without adequate ventilation.
Another added: “I’m literally suffocating in my bedroom now they restricted it to only a tiny gap, (the) fan just circulates stale air. Using a dryer ends in condensation running down walls and you still smell the dinner you cooked, days later. Burn the toast and you will regret it. The whole floor stinks of stale fags.”
The works, which will also be taking place at Harbour Towers, Trove Court, Kennedy House and Staner Court in Ramsgate and Invicta House in Margate, are expected to take between 18 months and two years in total.
The balcony and window restrictions are in place while scaffolding is up. Thanet council says this is for safety reasons and to limit the potential for dust and flammable materials to get inside the building while the external cladding is removed.
Thanet council deputy leader Cllr Helen Whitehead said: “There have been anonymous posts on social media encouraging people to take off window and balcony restrictors. Posts have included links to tools that can be used to remove the restrictors. By encouraging this dangerous behaviour, a small number of individuals are putting other residents, and themselves, at risk.
“As a result, the council has sent text messages informing all residents of Trove Court and Kennedy House about the possibility of enforcement if window/door restrictors are removed.
“Texts are a direct, cost effective and efficient way to reach a specific group of people. As the social media posts are anonymous, it is not possible to only warn those individuals encouraging restrictor removals.
“The decision to issue Community Protection Warnings has not been taken lightly. They will only be issued as a last resort. Officers will continue to make contact with the residents who have removed their window restrictors, with a view to them being fitted again.
“The council is aware of a small number of residents with health conditions. When individuals have approached us about specific needs, this has been taken into consideration.
“Anyone affected can contact us for support, as some already have. We will work with them, on a case by case basis, to find the most appropriate solution.
“Choosing to remove the restrictors without legitimate cause places everyone at greater risk.”
Screenshots taken by TDC
Thanet council says tenants and leaseholders were told in advance about the need for window restrictors while scaffolding is in place and letters and leaflets were sent explaining the measures.
The authority adds that the works will make the buildings safer and more energy efficient and it has a legal duty to keep both residents and anyone working on its buildings safe.
TDC says having the restrictors in place helps to prevent unauthorised access to the scaffolding, stops cigarettes being thrown out of the windows onto the scaffolding and helps limit flammable material and other construction dust getting inside homes.
However, some residents say the brackets will continue to be removed, with one adding: “All I heard yesterday after people got sealed in again was the clanging of metal popping off.”
Texts? Can’t they even be bothered to write proper letters now?!
Peter, you’ve already posted this, and as has been listed in the article, multiple written contacts have been made, as well as online contacts, and in person on site meetings.
If individuals are encouraging other residents to remove safety measures, speed of communication is important; hence using text, as well as every other form of standard communication (no carrier pigeons currently, but if you want to train them, go ahead and I’ll happily write notes).
That was via Facebook, and I didn’t see your reply on there when I posted here (or vice versa). Thank you anyway.
Now go and do something constructive, like sign the petition to save The Bong Shop.
He is always critical of anything Ramsgate. Never has a sensible alternative though. Sometimes rides a bike, but mostly relies on the public purse to subsides his means of travel. Ignore!😐
Baggy44 – what a silly response to Mr Checksfield – grow up please
Ooooh!!😂
In light of Grenfell, safety communication needs to be handled with care and respect. The “carrier pigeons” remark to residents raising safety concerns comes across as sarcastic and dismissive rather than reassuring.
I’ve now referred this to the Monitoring Officer to review under the councillors’ Code of Conduct, including duties to treat the public with respect and not bring the office into disrepute.
It was certainly a rather odd response from a serving TDC cllr.
Whereas pretending that Housing only use text to communicate, whilst knowing otherwise, and having access to an article that makes it very clear that that is incorrect, isn’t odd at all.
The article states “Thanet council has sent a text to every resident in the tower blocks saying enforcement action will be taken against anyone who removes the restrictions or prevents them being fitted.”
If I received something from the council threatening legal action, I’d want to show it to my solicitor – not so easy with a text message. Or was that the aim?
As for “speed of communication is important”, how long would it take for someone to hand deliver letters?
Indeed it was absolutely off the mark.
The complaint fails the legal jurisdiction criteria because:
If the facts could be established as a matter of evidence, the alleged conduct would not be capable of a breach of the Code of Conduct.
Since the complaint has failed one of the jurisdiction tests, no further action will be taken and the complaint is rejected.
There is no right of appeal against this decision.
Yours sincerely,
Ingrid Brown
I look forward to seeing it, anonymous poster.
Real person, just Google her name. Very amusing that a Thanet Councillor when faced with legitimate issues, feels the need to be insulting her constituents in full authoritarian, guard dog mode-rather than addressing the issues sensibly.
Rather speaks to the arrogance of this Labour regime-both national & local, who believe they can run roughshod over people, forgetting that those that gave them power can & likely will take it away come the next voting time.
Though of course most probably know their time in office is short, thanks to the mess Starmer & his 1984 style Tory Party have made-latest wheeze today is banning what adult material people can look at in their own homes (no choke) & want to throw their weight around as much as possible until then.
I thought Ms. Whitehead’s quip about carrier pigeons (above- Nov.1st) was quite amusing. Her comment was a response to one person.
I always find you amusing.
Not really how a councillor should be conducting themselves, whether you think it is funny or not though. There is an issue & rather than addressing it professionally, or just ignoring it-she is here going on the attack against anybody who dares question TDC & making light of it-usually that is left to the leader.
At this time if year I rarely open my windows more than a few centimeters. That’s all that’s necessary to air a room. I don’t understand why folk are kicking up such a fuss.
I open our windows wide, every day of the year. But I guess the air is fresher here than in the Ramsgetto.
Ventilation and accumulated warmth are very different in tower blocks. Flats “benefit” from the warmth (and odours) generated by others.
I don’t see what’s wrong with treating people like adults and letting them open or close their windows when they want. If they want their flat to get filled with dust then that’s their issue.
The problem is that some people are quite irresponsible, and take actions that have consequences for themselves and others.
I’m sure that TDC would not have gone to the trouble and expense of installing these restrictions for no good reason.
If it is that hazardous then why allow the windows to open at all ? Why 6cm ? Why, if you make a special request, is this increased to 10cm ? If 10cm isn’t considered hazardous then why don’t all the windows open to 10cm ?
I don’t doubt the Council’s good intentions, just a bit puzzled on the science, logic and reasoning behind it.
Really? If you can’t tell the difference between 3 inches & 8-12 inches the mind boggles.
I very much doubt that she’s experienced much of either.
The complaint fails the legal jurisdiction criteria because:
If the facts could be established as a matter of evidence, the alleged conduct would not be capable of a breach of the Code of Conduct.
Since the complaint has failed one of the jurisdiction tests, no further action will be taken and the complaint is rejected.
There is no right of appeal against this decision.
Yours sincerely,
Ingrid Brown
Would it be a day ending in a y if Old Pete didn’t make a stupid comment about something unrelated to him or his knowledge base?
I don’t think Ramsgate should be called “the Ramsgetto”, considering what real ghettos were like., and what their purpose was.
Have you ever opened your windows? Or are they fitted with locks and bars to keep you in?
Peter checksfield , you really are a sad sad individual. You literally spend all day on these sites , mind your own business in things now and again , go and write another top of the flops book that no body wants. Sad sad loser you are .
❤
I wouldn’t worry. Enforcement from TDC for anything very rarely happens. They haven’t got the staff or inclination to do anything.
(Unless they’re closing up well loved shops in Margate)
“I’m literally suffocating”…. no you’re not !
As always Checksfield suffers from premature emanation when he jumps the gun,in order to diss Ramsgate.i am sure he gets excited on his keyboard when Ramsgate is mentioned.
The residents need to wise up and stop being a pain, this is a short term measure and cooperation rather than obstruction is required.Its not summer, so please Trove court and Kennedy house cooperate.This article only shows what contrarians some people are.
At least I go to Ramsgate occasionally. It must be years since you were last there, “George”.
More pathetic stuff from the Liebour authoritarians. Going after bong shops & the poorest in society & like their anti social orders that fell apart as soon as somebody challenged them, they are in their usual bully-boy manner abusing orders meant for a totally different purpose & it would not stand up in court.
Surely they are only going to do one floor at a time? So why not fix these things on that floor when that floor it being done? Why the whole buildings? The council appears to be causing health problems to the residents. Take it further-these cowards will as before back down when you challenge it at a higher level than them.
What health problems? A 6cm window opening is plenty.
Clearly not-as many residents are complaining about breathing problems.
As, again, this is anonymous, I have no proper way to address you politely.
Rather than causing health problems, this is designed to protect people’s health (using previously existing restrictions) while render and cladding is removed. I don’t know if you’ve ever had major works done on a building you live in, but dust and materials do not stay in one place or on one floor.
The works are also happening specifically to protect council tenants and leaseholders, and dramatically increase the energy efficiency of their homes.
Oh come on Helen, people should be able to open their windows as wide as they want (I haven’t lived in tower blocks, but I’ve by-passed window preventers in stuffy hotel rooms – and then put them back before checking out). I’m sure they have the common sense to close them again while workmen are on site.
Don’t forget Peter-this is an authoritarian, nanny state government & local council who-
Want to ban any swearing in public
Want to ban people from smoking in certain public areas
Want to ban a bong shop that has been trading with no issues for decades
Want to tell people what they can & can’t eat & drink
Want to ban advertising of the above
Froze elderly people to death, starved children & attacked the disabled & poor-while wasting hundreds of billions on useless rubbish here & overseas, paying back the mega rich who gave them bungs for deals & give them ‘freebies’ & only backed down somewhat when, as Stevie Wonder could have seen, they started tanking in the polls & the backbenchers rebelled-for self-preservation reasons only of course
Want to impose identity cards on people under the guise of immigration, so they can control & spy on the public even more than they already do
Oh yes, forgot they gleefully passed through the Tories censoring what you can look at online & reviving Big Dave’s porn loicense idea-only now rather than having to buy a porn loicense from your newsagent or the supermarket as proposed then, now if you aren’t smart enough to get around it have to give all your details to some useless company run by a pal of the government, that will then be hacked, lose your data or sell it to the highest bidder for blackmail or identity theft purposes. My, the once red, then pale pink flag under war criminal Bliar, is now fully yellow under Keir Stalin!
Considering that this is part of fire safety measures as required within the fire safety assessment, as well as a building regs. requirement, I think I’m going to err on the side of things we legally have to do to keep people safe, rather than your opinion of the fire safety assessment, Peter.
Let’s hope there’s not any fires in their flats, with the windows the only possible escape route then…
Trapping people in their flats is a requirement of the building regulations & Health & Safety procedures? Then again I guess the people in Grenfell Tower being told to keep put while a fire was raging & burning the Tory governments cheapo cladding was part of it as well?
Neither does car or plane pollution. Why would a window being open 2.3 inches make any difference than it being open 4.3 or 6.3 inches? Unless it is closed & sealed it will leak in.
The same political logic we saw during Covid where people could take their flimsy masks that do nothing anyway while sitting down eating at a table, while the people ordering food six feet away had to remain masked? Where people had to remain seated & masked in a church, then they could stand up, take their masks off to sing & spit, sneeze & cough over each other?
As per your & prior TDC regimes illegal orders you were slapping on people until somebody finally stood up to you, that you backed down on as soon as it was legally challenged-admitting it was just being power mad bullies, this clearly is not meant for this kind of thing-it is meant for persistent loud nuisance neighbours, dirty swine who blight areas by dropping rubbish everywhere etc, not using it to intimidate & criminalise tenants with legitimate concerns & health issues.
A Community Protection Warning (CPW) is a formal written warning for persistent anti-social behaviour that negatively impacts a community’s quality of life, covering issues like noise, litter, and nuisance vehicles.
The Covid / mask rules are a very good comparison. Well put!
Of course people often don’t use their real names-you are a government that like the Tories before you, but even worse, have sent police officers round to people’s homes to ‘check their thinking’ for common sense/bland posts & lock people up for social media posts, while releasing dangerous criminals to make way for them & there have even been vindictive Labour councillors elsewhere reporting factual posts to the police as harassment.
If you want people to use their real names, then maybe your party shouldn’t be behaving like a 1984 police state & behave like the socialist party you were until recent times! We voted Labour to get something better than the Tories, instead we got an even worse Tory Party-at least with those slime we expect all this stuff, Foot & Benn, along with many others will have been turning in their graves the last 16 odd months.
I’m not sure sealimg peoples’ windows up by the method they have chosen and threatening tenants for their removal is even legal because TDC have a bad habit of disregarding and abusing law.
Do you mean “replacing restrictors that would have been in place when flats were handed over”?
Take no notice of Peter I think he’s losing the plot. He seems to think he lives in utopia be nice of a few restrictions were put on him. Anyway, tenants of Tdc just do as you’re told and stop having an hour in or using the disabled card you can’t get enough air. I bet you soon get enough air when you go up the bingo. Plenty of you up there the restrictions are put there your own benefit for safety. If you don’t like what your landlord tells you then you know what to do move out the sense of entitlement is unbelievable.
By all means take no notice of me, but don’t tell residents with genuine concerns what’s best for them while not even giving your full name.
Have TDC fully explained to the residents why the restrictions are fitted. One of my sisters lives on the 17 floor at Canary Wharf, she has restrictions fitted on her windows for various reasons she has no problem with it.
Either the building works is carried out safely whilst the tenants are in the building (restrictors in place) or if just one tenant continues to refuse to maintain the safety of the building, then the council will be forced to move everyone out while the work is done.
Is that what those refusing to be sensible want?
If there is such a danger to residents as claimed by Cllr Whitehead, then shouldn’t tenants be found alternative accommodation until it is done? Especially seeing as it is being claimed some residents are being caused health issues by it?
We all know what a huge difference it makes to air quality in a room as to how far we can open our windows & having doors open to remove stale air & let fresh air in & have it circulate. Try opening your window 2-3 inches in the summer, compared to 3 to 4 times that & see what a difference the latter makes.
Is it usual practice for councils while work is being performed, to only let council block tenants have their windows open by 2-3 inches for an indefinite period & covering the entire building, regardless of whether work is being done on their floor & then claim that dust & other materials are flying up or down the building into their apartment & that somehow a window only being open a small amount would magically prevent this, or through solid matter above or below them-even when no work is being done on their floor?
The council will have had a risk assessment done by an outside company I suspect rather than internal. Were they to ignore that or pay for a second opinion and something then went wrong if they didn’t follow the original opinion, there would be a potential claim for corporate manslaughter. Once the advice was given, if they didn’t try and enforce the identified safe solution and something again went wrong, they could become liable for corporate manslaughter once again.
Moving vulnerable individuals who can’t agree to the opening being restricted out, may be a solution, but it will be an expensive solution and there probably aren’t that many alternatives available to house them.
If that is true it does make one wonder why TDC bothers to run Health & Safety & Environmental departments & pays staff to make such decisions.
How about finding alternative accommodation for those suffering health issues?
Seems a lot more sensible than more bad publicity for TDC by picking on the poorest in society, via the use of inappropriate orders designed to stop persistent noisy neighbours making other residents lives a misery, litter fiends blighting neighbourhoods etc & that as we saw with the dispersal orders when somebody finally had the balls to challenge TDC on it, wouldn’t stand up in court & they backed down right away & abandoned that policy?
Deliberately working to improve council accommodation across Thanet is not, and never will be, “picking on the poorest in society”.
I post on here as myself, using my actual name. In future if you want any kind of response, you will need to be brave enough to do the same.
All the best.
Sending them texts threatening them with eviction is picking on the poorest, as is using orders meant for persistent troublemakers making noise, dumping waste etc to intimidate them & make out like they are criminals.
Could really care less whether you reply or not-we all know you are just a TDC guard dog, put up, or volunteering yourself to spout off their lies/party line & go on the attack-ala the example set by your leader.
The nonsense strawman you & your fellow councillors have of insisting people give their birth names is ludicrous-it makes zero difference at all to any points being raised & as said the reason people don’t it because how politicians behave-so you have nobody to blame but yourselves, because of the police state you have created in recent times.
Helen, I agree with regarding using actual real names on this news website. The people who genuinely identify themselves carry much more weight in their opinions on this forum. Before one of the usual contributors on here accuses me of being a labour party supporter, I am happy to say, I wouldn’t vote for an British unionist party, as I am a proud party member of a republican party.
Yet you only give half your name! Why would people who give real names carry any more weight than those that don’t? This is totally illogical & irrational.
Helen, I agree with you regarding using actual real names on this news website. The people who genuinely identify themselves carry much more weight in their opinions on this forum. Before one of the usual contributors on here accuses me of being a labour party supporter, I am happy to say, I wouldn’t vote for an British unionist party, as I am a proud party member of a republican party.