Thanet council says it is “in detailed external discussions” over the future of Margate Winter Gardens.
The talks come on the heels of a marketing exercise to identify an operator for the venue.
The Winter Gardens has been shut since August 2022, when Your Leisure – the company which managed it – handed its lease back to the council.
The lease hand back came after Your Leisure faced a substantial shortfall in its income as a result of Covid with trading income down by £1.28million in 2020 compared to 2019 and outstanding liabilities in the region of £8m in terms of loans for Hartsdown and Ramsgate leisure centres.
The council, as guarantor for the leisure centre loans, could have faced extra penalties if the loans were redeemed early.
The council originally allocated £300,000 to undertake surveys and marketing of the historic concert hall – built in 1911 – looking for companies to take over its management.
The funding, from the £22.2m Margate Town Deal, was then boosted by another £4m allocation which had been earmarked for the Dreamland Cinema until owners LN-Gaiety said they did not want the funds.
The original Town Deal bid for the Winter Gardens had been for £4 million but government requested a long term plan and at that time the council did not have a proposal with a potential operator/partner and so the bid was changed to £300,000 for the structural surveys and related reports.
The £4m now allocated to the scheme is to be offered as “seed investment” to make the building more attractive to possible operators.
It is hoped this will help with the millions needed to make the theatre fit for the future.
Last year, council leader Rick Everitt acknowledged that at least £6 million, probably more, was needed to bring the building up to scratch.
Previously a report to councillors said an immediate cost of £2.5m is needed for structural , building and mechanical and electrical works with a further £3.5m estimated over the next 10 years and total costs estimated at £6.25m.
In March of this year the council said there has been one formal expression of interest in running the venue since it was marketed and “a number of interested parties”.
The marketing exercise was repeated once the £4m allocation was agreed.
Those interested were asked to submit proposals and business plans for consideration.
Thanet council says: “At this stage of the process the detail surrounding this remains confidential.
“Once this process concludes, a public report will be reviewed by the council’s Cabinet to set out the way forward.”
Last year Cllr Everitt said a sale of the building was off the table and the council would instead be seeking a long lease.
Any new operator will be expected to refurbish, improve, maintain and operate the venue for uses that could include a concert hall, theatre, event spaces or leisure and tourism uses.
The Pavilion and Winter Gardens took just nine months to build, costing £26,000, and opened on August 3, 1911.
When completed the Pavilion and Winter Gardens consisted of: a large Concert Hall, four entrance halls, two side wings and an amphitheatre.
Originally the stage could be viewed from both the main hall and the amphitheatre with the ability to enclose the stage in bad weather. The accommodation was for about 2,500 persons inside the building and 2,000 in the open air.
Here we go ,I’ve been waiting for this ,TDC has wanted to get rid of the winter gardens for years ,if this goes ahead and TDC sales it look at all the cash they will get and will keep the cash that’s already been promised.
i think you are dead right about this
So TDC want someone to repair maintain and everything fund all and then pay rent,have I read it right ,if so TDC gets everything for nothing couldn’t make it up
Which is the same for Northdown House. This seems to be the way forward for TDC, we own it but won’t maintain it.
Probably better (cheaper) to pull it down and start again with something modern and fit for purpose 😕
Totally agree JJ. Demolish it and build back better. A modern construction with solar panels etc, with the emphasis on low maintenance.
The one thing we should have learnt is that Modern, low maintenance is a total myth.
My old school (Salmestone) is still in excellent repair. How many time are modern schools (Cunningham) rebuilt and then rebuilt again a few years later.
Solar… total waste of money… proof: go look at the energy dashboard… solar currently contributing 2.5% to the UK power networks.
How much was spent on the Turner centre little more than a decade after it was finished?
The art-mob don’t like to mention things like that.
I agree with-look at THE MARLOWE in Canterbury-It was knocked =Then a new building was built in its place years ago.
Perhaps we can knock down Stonehenge while we’re at it. That area could do with a nice out of town shopping centre and car park.
There’s definitely a trend here.
Hold a valuable asset, invest no money in repairs or maintenance over the course of many years, wait until the asset is crumbling and falling down. Then put all your faith in the fact that a private sector company will come in and pump millions into said asset and bail the council out.
Sheer incompetence.
Well said JJ , build a modern theatre with all the amenities uinside and out, and maintain the gardens
Why oh why is TDC so inept, they have all these properties, directors or heads of service that are paid a lot of money, an estate department, and everything goes to rack and ruin.
Margate: the kind of people who want to demolish Edwardian theatres but preserve crumbling ’60s tower blocks.
Arlington isn’t crumbling. Winter gardens, actually is.
Yes it is. The metal in the concrete is actually exposed in places, i.e. it has concrete cancer.
Oh dear it does seem like some people don’t live in the real world or have any understanding of it and quite possibly only exist to find reasons to complain (wonders if that’s politically motivated).
1. It’s a well known fact that a commercial leaseholder is responsible for the repair and maintenance of the building that is leased.
2. It’s been made quite plain that to pay back the loan early will incur fees, just like if you pay back your mortgage early so if TDC sells then the loan has to be repaid, unless you know of any financial business that will secure a loan on a property that you don’t own.
3. If it were that TDC spent tax payers money on the building where does that money come from? You guessed it – your pocket. So then I expect you’d moan about that and moan about whichever other services couldn’t be funded because the council has a finite amount of money which, thanks to 15 years of austerity is ever decreasing in relationship to demand.
So how about getting real and accepting that what TDC wants to do is the least worst option when the best option cannot be achieved.
But the terms of any lease will reflect the state of the building when the lease is signed, does TDC really expect to have much of an income from a building that’s going to need any prospective operator to invest multiple millions into and who is also going to want a very long lease to allow them to make that money back, plus a profit.
They’re hardly going to sign a ten year lease chuck 10 million into it, only get say 8 years use after the works are done and then return it to TDC.
The wider issue is the way in which TDC and it’s previous incarnations have dealt with its property assets over the decades. Look up the article about the abject failings of the commercial property department and then decide if there was anyone actually running anything.
At last someone who knows the ins and outs of leasehold properties and responsibilities that go with leasing a property.
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TDC (Thanet Residents) is the Freholder of Arlington House. Arlington Arcade and car park. The building is leased to to a company who are responsible to maintain everything. In return TDC receive an annual income from the leaseholder. Some of the residents were given permission to purchase their sub lease but are still responsible for maintenance fee’s. This will be no different to the Wintergardens. TDC on residents behalf will still own but whoever leases will be responsible for maintaining. If TDC decide to assist with initial repairs they are still the freeholders. This is common practice.
You are under the assumption that TDC is capable… Thanet District Circus really is the home of the clowns. Bottom feeders in the council chamber and totally useless, clock-watching jobsworths in the council offices.
TDC couldn’t run a tupperware party.
Alex Peters- have you ever been a local councillor? If not, perhaps you should stand for one in the next local election.
I think you should. You’d be good at it.
Knock it down -Build a new one in its place. Like The Marlowe at canterbury.
You’d have to get round the obstacle of it being listed before you could knock it down, not impossible but given the listing is relatively recent ( 2008) , going to be hard to explain why having decided it was a building of merit that deserved to be protected ,you’ve then let it deteriorate to the extent you want to demolish it.