Thanet council plans to introduce a three-year Public Space Protection Order (PSPO) on Athelstan and Ethelbert Roads in Cliftonville to tackle littering, flytipping and antisocial behaviour.
The PSPO is part of a wider Thanet Multi-agency Task Force project to help to reduce crime and anti-social behaviour (ASB) and improve the appearance of the two roads.
The proposed PSPO will mean:
- Residents must put their household rubbish in the correct bin.
- Residents must put out their bins on the correct collection day.
- Residents must not leave bins out on the street apart from on collection day. This means putting out bins between 6pm on the day before collection is due, and taking them back onto their property no later than 8pm on collection day.
- Residents must not dump or leave waste or litter on driveways, in gardens or other outdoor spaces.
- Residents must make sure that garden walls and fences are safe and in good condition.
- Residents must not make noise at any time that is likely to disturb their neighbours.
Members of the public will not be able to use the alleyway between Athelstan Road and Ethelbert Road as the council will install lockable gates at each end. Residents, guests, emergency services and certain other authorised people will still be able to use the alleyway.
If the order is agreed, the new rules will apply to anyone in Athelstan and Ethelbert Roads. Enforcement officers will have the authority to enforce the new rules through Fixed Penalty Notices. The order will not replace any other laws or regulations that are already in place.
As part of the process to introduce the PSPO, Thanet council is holding a public consultation before it is presented to councillors for approval.
Thanet council says:
- 7% of all flytipping within the district is contained within Athelstan and Ethelbert Roads, including the alleyway between the two roads.
- 32% of all Fixed Penalty Notices issued in Thanet are issued at this location.
- Over the last 12 months, 64% of complaints on Athelstan and Ethelbert Roads have been in relation to waste and fly-tipping.
The consultation opened today (November 21) and will run until 5pm on Friday 9 December.
Once the consultation has closed, Thanet council will review the responses and if people are mostly in support of the proposals the plans will be put to councillors to make a final decision.
If the PSPO is approved signs will be installed in Athelstan and Ethelbert Roads to explain the new rules.
PSPOs
A public spaces protection order is an order made by the Local Authority if it is satisfied on reasonable grounds that two conditions are met. These are:
That activities being carried out within a public place have had detrimental effect on the quality of life of those in the locality or it is likely they will.
That the effect, or likely effect, of these activities is, or is likely to be, of a persistent or continuing nature, such as to make the activities unreasonable.
The orders identify public places and prohibit specific things from being done in that area or require specific things to be done in that area for a maximum of 3 years.
Breach of the order would constitute a criminal offence.
erm, a little late I fear.
I have today advised TDC refuse collections that is not only the general public that leave refuse.
My red lidded paper bin was emptied today at 06:15. A mechanical arm has to lift the bin and empty the contents into the rear of the truck. A quantity of paper was left on the pavement. The refuse collector had to walk past the paper on the floor to get to the next property. Why couldn’t he pick up the rubbish. ? If a member of the public leaves or drops rubbish on the pavement/road he /she is liable for a fine……… Yes I did clear up after him.
There’s not even space for a shovel and a broom on TDC’s refuse lorries. THAT is how low in it’s priorities picking up dropped rubbish is.
Is this even legal or enforceable?
Residents must put out their bins on the correct collection day. What does this mean? They are by law forced not to have their bins out & keep them inside every other day? If they forget are they prosecuted? Or does this just mean at the end of their property/outside? If somebody decides to walk past late at night & chuck something in the residents bins incorrectly at 2 in the morning then does the resident then get charged with a criminal offence?
Residents must not dump or leave waste or litter on driveways, in gardens or other outdoor spaces. So when the wind inevitably blows rubbish into their gardens or driveways are they supposed to magically know & clean it up right away? Do they get fined if any jobsworth enforcing this nonsense snoops 30 seconds after it happens?
Residents must make sure that garden walls and fences are safe and in good condition. And how do they do this exactly? Aren’t many of them in social housing where it is the responsibility of the council to do this? How are they supposed to afford it?
Residents must not make noise at any time that is likely to disturb their neighbours. Again this is very vague-are they not allowed to do any DIY in case the sound of a hammer upsets their neighbour? Is there a decibel level? A volume level on televisions that you cannot go above? After all as we know some people will do anything to get their neighbours or anybody else in trouble-what might be acceptable noise for a neighbour one side might be a case of calling the council/police for the meddlesome ratbag on the other side.
Surely a simple proposal covering drug dealing, groups converging drinking ^ causing trouble, real anti-social behavour such as sitting outside drunk shouting at people, very loud music playing, loud domestics, people being fined for being observed dropping litter etc would be more sensible & enforceable.
Looks like the power hungry mob at TDC-who would be better sorting out their own behaviour-bullying, corruption, incompetence etc are on another power trip. Whole thing is totally over the top/draconian, irrational & would almost certainly be laughed out of court if they try prosecuting people.
“Police or council officers will be able to ask you to follow the rules below” no mention of fines on that “flyer”, there’ll be a few well publicised fines but other than that little will happen, the less responsible residents that cause the majority of the problems are patently not ones to follow any rules so unlikely to change their ways. But it is good to see that the focus in this instance is the local residents rather than anyone but.
But it must be said , theycare annindustrious lot in that road to be able to garner such worthy percentages of flytipping and penalty notice statistics. Any chance we could have a figure on how many actually get paid in full?
There is already a Public Space Protection Order in force for Margate Sands. However, it has done nothing to prevent tons of rubbish being dumped on the beach by visitors; nothing to prevent daytime use of barbecues on the beach; nothing to prevent multiple discos blasting across the beach; nothing to prevent petrol generators on the beach to run the PA systems, microwaves, deep fat fryers, etc.
How is TDC going to set about a further PSPO when it had proved itself incapable of enforcing the one it already has ?
how can this be when its recently had that wonderful rating ? we all know the real reason this place is a no go area dont we
These proposals seem like the ones that should apply in any neighbouhood. We all want tidy, clean, peaceful areas to live in, don’t we?
Of course, but do these rules really strike you as being in proportion? Would you like to be fined when people drop rubbish & then the wind blows it in your garden & one of their snoops reports it before you even know it is there & can clean it up?
Would you like to get in trouble for using a hammer in your house at a reasonable time of the day, just because a neighbour says you are making too much noise? Because that is what these rules cover.
As I said this is totally over the top & hopefully gets voted down & replaced with a more sensible, fair & enforceable scheme that will actually punish those causing the problem & not a system open to abuse from jobsworths & vengeful neighbours making false/malicious reports.
Remember the overzealous TDC cigarette butt inspectors & some dodgy company TDC hired to control litter dropping from years back falsely accusing people of dropping them everywhere & even dropping them themsselves? Pretty sure most if not all of these spurious prosecutions ended up dropped or dismissed.
https://theisleofthanetnews.com/2017/12/14/kingdom-litter-police-in-thanet-to-be-investigated-for-littering/
https://theisleofthanetnews.com/2019/02/13/thanet-council-to-review-contract-with-kingdom-enforcement-in-light-of-complaints/
https://arbroath.blogspot.com/2016/11/shop-manager-fined-for-sweeping-up.html
https://metro.co.uk/2008/12/07/a60-fine-over-a-cigarette-knocked-out-of-hand-218941/
Phyllis, there are 84 home owners in my road, and most of them wouldn’t dream of leaving their rubbish out so it blows down the road, days before collection! If rubbish is being blown down the road its due to a few of the dozen or so tenanted houses, by people who have no pride of possession, and couldn’t care less if they make the place look like a 3rd World Tip!
Bit of a stuck up snobby remark about people who rent, are we not up to your expectations?
i have rented my house for 16 years and oddly enough make sure the content of the bins dont end up down our street, as for Homeowners, i can spot good examples in my road up west dumpton who care not one jot and leave rubbish strewn everywhere
It’s all down to them not facing the truth, but we’re not allowed to say. So more money spent on cliftonville as opposed to teaching how to live in the UK or any other EU country
Correct Chris.
Come to live in this country means living by the rules of this country, and not those from the country you came from.
Say too much tho’, and we’re the ones in trouble!!
You can have as many rules as you like .Unless the council is going to employ 2 people to oversee each road .Then this will be a waste of time. The fine will probably stopped out of there benefits money.
Well, the council have imposed waste fees at the tip and an internet booking system only people who care can access. What does TDC expect?
One general waste bin collection every 2 weeks is normally enough, but all it takes are passers by to fill it completely often only a couple of days after last collection. This means overflowing bins ripe for seagull visits hence renegade waste.
Bin systems need improving such as locks and anchoring, if only to cope with unexpected gusts of wind. This would be a great help.
Paladin business bins are always ripe for furtive resident use, especially for items that won’t fit, too heavy or deemed contract waste. Are they putting CCTV on all the seafront bins too?
I would also advocate for a resumption of weekly general waste collection in problem areas/postcodes.
Tip: Most smart residents know how to play the system with their waste at odd times like rubble after a refit; think drip feeding heavy stuff at the empty bottom of your bin that won’t cause a binman to be suspicious and look in, but seldom to the bottom.
The PSPO will certainly give Enforcement Officers more scope for issuing notices or possibly fines where needed but hopefully this is more about education and forging a local community that works together in creating a better place to work and live. The public consultation will give residents a chance to give their views and decide whether this is a good proposal or not. The alleyway once gated and CCTV is installed has real potential to be turned into a useful community space. Many thanks to the Margate Multi-agency Task Force for their work putting this together.
It clearly isn’t, as it is totally over the top-making people criminals for doing DIY in their home in the daytime if somebody complains. Prosecuting people for litter they didn’t drop & haven’t seen blown into their garden yet. Prosecuting people for the state of fences etc when they likely cannot afford to have them fixed.
Afraid the Task Force & TDC are going down the same old paths/mistakes as the embarrassment of the overzealous TDC Cigarette butt droppers enforcers who tried to prosecute a law abiding pensioner who was knocked over by security guards chasing thieves & the dodgy litter company TDC employed not many years back who were inventing things, falsely accusing people & as it turned out were dropping litter themselves.
As we saw there this nonsense was unenforcable & cost the taxpayer in court costs for failed actions etc. Why not come up with something simple that punishes those actually littering, not people who have litter blown into their gardens & one of your stooges sees it before the resident does & has a chance to clean it up, who want to go about doing DIY in their house in the daytime etc, when you know these things will be laughed out of court & the police haven’t got the time to pursue?
https://theisleofthanetnews.com/2019/02/13/thanet-council-to-review-contract-with-kingdom-enforcement-in-light-of-complaints/
https://theisleofthanetnews.com/2017/12/14/kingdom-litter-police-in-thanet-to-be-investigated-for-littering/
https://metro.co.uk/2008/12/07/a60-fine-over-a-cigarette-knocked-out-of-hand-218941/
The small block of flats in Cornwall Gardens (next to the chemist) Front ‘garden’ is always strewn with litter and rubbish. And they have two large council waste bins! What’s the matter with them? And why don’t their neighbours pull them about it?
Would you confront these “I’ll do as I f***ing want types?
I’d need to be well over 6’ tall , built like a brick out house and have confidence to do that.
Most of us are not, it needs the by-laws to be enforced by those capable of doing so and the perpetrators taken to court. Won’t happen, will it?
Fair point, Ton. By now someone at the council would have read this, so they should get round there and sort it. Not doing so is an insult to the rest of us.
Ha, they let the scummy landlords, letting agents & rent a thugs intimidate, steal from & even assault people for nearly 15 years(2007-2021) before they were tried & convicted earlier this year.
Of course no investigation as to why TDC turned a blind eye to this for so long & what the role of the police was during that time-especially as one tenant was jumped by hired thugs, doused in petrol & then had his teeth knocked out. These things just happen in Thanet.
https://theisleofthanetnews.com/2022/10/12/sentencing-for-landlords-who-terrorised-tenants-in-cliftonville-property/
Private property, if they don’t want to tidy up it’s their choice, nothing the council can do until it becomes a health hazard. They could claim it’s an art project and probably get funding.
Private landlords, cramming as many people as impossible into HoMO, with woefully inadequate provision for refuse disposal.
Did you know that such a person once posted on here to the effect that he’d instructed his tenants not to recycle!
Unbelievable.
Of course i do , it was me as you well know, as a result there are never any rubbish problems associated with my buildings, and all my tenants refuse goes into the bulk bins. I spend far too much time clearing up wind blown litter amd disposing of it. Just imagine if every landlord and resident behaved in the same way. We’d have clean streets, wouldn’t that be a novelty. My opinion is that its a far better option than faffing about recycling, when in cliftonville most of the collected recyclables are treated as mixed refuse due to contamination. I’d wager my approach is far more efficient and cost effective than that desired by the recycling zealots. But hey what would i know after 20 plus years of experience in tenant behaviour and TDCs barious changes in refuse collection along with planning conditions and enforcement etc.
Any enforcers won’t be armed and thus would be at the same risk of harm as the coward you come across as.
It’s “fair game for anyone but me” attitude.
Sad
I am shocked I tell you shocked. I have just moved here from Hawaii after reading this was the 8th best place in the world to live.
I left behind beautiful gold sands beautiful clear warm sea. Nice temperature and a very laid back life style.
Here in the 8th best place in the world, it’s cold, litter everywhere, graffiti wide spread, sh*t in the sea when its rain, the sweet smell of dope floats through the area. Perhaps that’s why people voted it the 8th best place in the world. Everyone is stoned !
Any good bye I am of back to Hawaii
Aw, sorry to see you go Mr clean (‘cos you’re obviously for real). Odd though, ‘cos I thought you might have felt quite at home: ‘Hawaii faces a number of pressing problems in the near future, including a rapidly changing climate, corrupt government reputation, poor business climate, along with homelessness, drug use, and poverty.’
Carina
So the same as here 😉
Sad that TDC & this group have no interest in the dog owners who let their pets crap everywhere & then walk away without cleaning it up.
I think all would rather encounter a crisps packet that step in a dog turd & seeing as it can cause blindness in children & brings swarms of flies is also a health hazard. Whatever happened to the FIDO machine that was much trumpeted at the time TDC rolled it out? Never seen it once in Margate & the streets are covered in it.
I see Cliftonville is still a dump like always was