Thanet councillors have backed a motion calling on Dreamland owners Sands Heritage Limited and Live Nation to reveal the full technical information behind the decision to retire the Scenic Railway and to work with the council and others to return it to regular operation.
Bosses at Dreamland announced last month they were retiring the Grade II* listed ride which, they claim, would require some five hours of checks each day to operate, making it no longer viable to run.
The motion, brought by council leader Rick Everitt, says the grade 2* listed scenic railway is a key symbol of identity for Margate.
It adds: “We recognise the need to give absolute priority to the health and safety of visitors and staff, and that Sands Heritage and Live Nation, the owners of Dreamland, have the legal right to make this decision. Nevertheless, in view of the substantial investment of public money by this council and others in safeguarding Dreamland’s future, as well as significant community involvement, we believe this is a matter of wide public interest and reputational risk to Margate, as well as Dreamland.”
The motion backed deputy leader Helen Whitehead’s request sent to Lisa Nandy MP, Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, in January asking her to review the requirements of Listed Building Status, to ensure that structures listed due to the nature of their function are protected for operation, as well as maintenance of the structure.
An addition to the motion raised by Thanet Conservative leader John Davis was also approved, saying: “This council will not accept the permanent cessation of the Scenic Railway operation without full and transparent evidence provided by the operator to demonstrate such a decision is appropriate, necessary and justified.”
Other amendments were not approved but a request by Cllr Barry Manners (Reform) for the council’s scrutiny panel to examine the history of the sale of the Dreamland estate and what safeguards and covenants were in place was agreed for consideration by scrutiny chairman Cllr Phil Fellows (Conservative).
A request from Cllr Rob Yates (Green) that Cabinet meet Tom Foxall, the Head of the South East Region for Historic England, was not added to the motion but Cllr Everitt said a meeting with the organisation was already being scheduled.
Cllr Yates also raised the issue that TDC paid some £2m for the neon lights of Dreamland to be repaired but these have not been turned back on since the filming of Empire of Light. He said this showed a pattern of behaviour by Dreamland.
Cllr Yates said Mr Foxall believed: “There are levers TDC can pull to encourage Dreamland to take action.”
Thanet council says it has limited powers to intervene in the decision by Dreamland bosses. The council would determine any change of use planning application but, Cllr Everitt said, such an application has not been submitted.
Cllr Whitehead said the action by Dreamland owners was “not acceptable” and she hoped the council and public would bring pressure “on an organisation that is wholly failing our community.”
Cllr Fellows said the council should refer to the Local Plan which states: “Proposals that reduce the site’s attractiveness as a leisure destination or threaten the Scenic Railway will be resisted.”
He also noted that £3m grant funding from the Lottery Heritage Fund was to be used to ensure the Scenic’s “operational standard.”
Cllr Becky Wing (Green) said she found it strange that Dreamland was concerned about health and safety for the Scenic Railway as opposed to its music venue, adding: “Maybe we should be getting them to shut the music venue down given people have died and forcing them to reopen the Scenic Railway.”
Dreamland previously said: “Independent ADIPS (Amusement Device Inspection Procedures Scheme) contractors, the HSE (Health and Safety Executive), external rides consultants and the technical services team all carried out inspections and their findings were presented to Dreamland, who in turn worked in close consultation with The National Lottery Heritage Fund and Historic England and liaised with Thanet District Council.
“Further to these discussions, it has been concluded that after 100+ years, the ride has come to the end of its current life and it is no longer able to continue to be used as an amusement park ride.”
Like Trig’s broom—or the Ship of Theseus—it’s the same 100 year old Scenic Railway but with all its bits replaced. There’s no reason at why, if it could operate safely in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s etc, it cannot operate now.
Cui bono? As we punks like to ask.
I very much doubt that the safety requirements of the 20’s 30’s 40’s bear any resemblance to those of today. So hardly a like for like comprison. However the central point from live nation is the amount of time needed to do the daily inspections required.
Perhaps TDC could offer to do the inspections ,and take liability for them ,at a cost that is acceptable to live nation and makes the ride an economic reality?
Agreed , it was totally rebuilt, , ground up
Was a catastrophic mistake made ? When rebuilt?
Walking around it , looks fine to me
The suggestions by Cllrs Barry Manners (Reform), Rob Yates (Green) and Becky Wing (Green) all sound far more effective to me than Cllr Helen Whitehead’s feeble “not acceptable” and Cllr Rick Everitt’s banging on about nothing. Do better guy, that’s why you were elected!
“to ensure that structures listed due to the nature of their function are protected for operation, as well as maintenance of the structure.”
A carefully constructed form of words that enables TDC to ignore the pitiful lack of”maintenance of the structure” of its many listed buildings over the decades. Do these people have no shame.
Ramsgate clock house
Tudor house
Winter gardens
Theatre Royal
Northdown House
Dane Park Urinals
Royal Crescent
Being just those that spring to mind. Yes i realise some have been or are in the process of being offloaded.
They don’t like being reminded of things like this, so well done.
Plus the Granville Theatre ! Left to rot and luckily purchased by people who actually care about it.
it might be a good idea for TDC to purchase a fire engine the longer this saga drags on , just a thought – this is unlucky thanet after all
If it is a privately owned facility, it is up to the owners what they do with it. The relatively few protesters aren’t likely to put their hands in the pockets to cover the cost of sustaining this relic of the past. Or are they?
As taxpayers Baggy we’ve already done that
Agreed
‘Private’ ownership is created by public laws. It’s a contested construct not a natural state of things. Moreover the funding of Dreamland has largely been public funding. It’s not a ‘Grey Area’ or a matter for private discretion. What’s happening is a political failure, a public disgrace, and one for which someone should be held accountable.
With the huge profits Live Nation make annually there is no reason at all why they shouldn’t put a minute bit back into inspections of rides daily. Travelling fair grounds can manage it on their rides each morning before going live so why can Dreamland no longer account for their rides? Well the answer is that it does not make as much money as the live music and entertainment events they put on. That, because TDC do nothing to enforce Dreamland in bringing the high volume down to a reasonable level so residents can enjoy their own surroundings without continuous noise nuisance blighting their Spring, Summer and Autumn evenings. It’s not even like it is a one off event it is every week.
Going to play Devils Advocate here. As up and coming as it supposedly is, Margate and its Amusement Park, Bemboms, Dreamland, however you remember it is never going to see the return of it’s haydays of the 60’s and 70’s when people came down from London. It’s not what it was then. It’s a funfair for the locals. It’s a big bit of land.
Prop up the ailing Scenic Railway, Make it a centerpiece and build some more MUCH NEEDED housing. Although who these houses are for, I havent a clue.
There are certain Cllrs that must be salivating over the prospect of housing there! I’ll say no more.
I don’t think it will be helpful to tie the hands of the council, but as a start asking nicely in public,but demanding in private for Dreamland to be transparent might be a start.
Cllrs Everitt and Whitehead ought to beard Lisa Nandy in her den, so as to put the fear of god up Dreamland.
This is the fault of the previous administration as usual, and I can quire understand why the people of Thanet as so pissed off with state of affairs.Everytime some money hoves too in Thanet, some ratbagging outfit, snaffles it and seeks to make a quick buck.
Who are these Cllrs who are salivating at the thought of housing? I don’t think they exist, but I suspect there were some like me, who doubted the wisdom of yet another investment in the past which was likely to fail. We should have all been more realistic and saved parts of Dreamland as a museum and yes, built apartments around it as an income stream for its future wellbeing.
What you have here is death by mutilation which is likely to end with a bunch of carpetbaggers running off with any profits.We need a plan here not moaning from the sidelines.
George, the plan was decided and put in motion years ago. Most that were involved did’nt know they were being played and it’d probably be impossible to now determine who the puppet masters were.
From the day the park reopened it was blindingly obvious that it was intended to only be permanent upto the edge of the “amphitheatre”, beyond that it’s little more than a gravel carpark for hired in rides.
When the council decided to reduce the capacity of the “concert hall” the previously excellent “by the sea” festival abandoned the venue.It was almost as if the council wanted it all to fail.
Then there was the last minute change to a long lease when it was first handed over to Sands. So much oversight was lost, then in the mad scramble to sell off the freehold the carpark was thrown in to get a deal done.
The previous claims of compensation being sought for a botched compulsory purchase, have gone rather quiet, (has there been a settlement , covered by an Nda).
The council nd various others were all too happy to try and punish the park operators for the actions of the young lady who’d died from a drug overdose , but amazingly quiet about the results of the investigation and the information that strongly suggested she’d taken the drugs into the venue. (Short of strip and cavty searches you’ll never stop someone who’s determined, in this instance the potency of the drugs distributed was the real problem).
The development moratorium on the site was hardly long enough to encoutrage much other than landbanking, the debacle of the housing at the backmof the park being so shoddy it needs to be demolished and conveniently purchased by tdc, leaves the door wide open for some cosy deal between dreamland and the council going forward .
Far too many oddities and convenient coicidences for it all to be pure chance, though nothing will ever be shown to be underhand.
All we do know for sure is that a spectacular amount of public funding has miraculously evaporated for little real return to the public.
The saga will no doubt stagger on for another decade or so.
By which time there’ll have been so many TDC administrations involved the web’ll be so tangled that it’ll all be lost in the mists of time.
I can’t imagine Lisa Nandy putting “the fear of god” in anyone, let alone a billionaire off-shore company!
Yep and she won’t care.
The owners will demonstrate that the 5 hours is in their (and of their professional addvisors) the time it will take to undertake the daily inspections. Probably not unreasonable,( risk assessments, machinery and electrical lock outs, permits to work, working at height regulations, inspection scope , recording findings and backing it all up.)
Going to ne very hard for TDC to say that the time taken (and costs incurred) are excessive. Safety has no limits- will be the response.
The only real way round it would be for TDC to undertake the inspection regime at a cost the owners feel is economically viable and for tdc to also be liable. That’s never going to happen.
So it’s all just hot air and bluster.
Am I missing something ? This had a major rebuild 10 years ago and with in that time its been allowed to ‘rot’ away.
I have 2 questions
1) Did I read correctly TDC have paid Dreamland 2 million for the repair of neon lights?
2) If the Scenic Railway was almost completely rebuilt just over 10 years ago. If it already rotten. What sort of timber was used?
Well reinstatement of Neon lights, but yes if the article is correct seemingly so. But for that amount it must be a bit more involved , if not questions should be asked .
No one is saying it’s falling apart, rather that the inspection regime required to ensure the ride is fit for purpose has become time consuming to such an extent it makes the ride no longer viable as a working attraction.
Going to be hard to argue that the owners inspection regime is too detailed and that adequate safety checks can be done faster and cheaper. Even if the council does say such a thing the owners will just present the reports and inspection regimes they’ve been advised are necessary.
The park has been run down from the very start, rides sold off etc. The owners since the lease was signed have’nt been theme park operators nor do they want to be, they are doing what they need to in order to operate dreamland as they wish.
It’s all been a careful exercise in aquiring a big chunk of prime margate seafront , for minimal expenditure. The council has been outplayed at each stage.
“Thanet council says it has limited powers to intervene in the decision by Dreamland bosses”
So stop the faux outrage and focus on the things that you can control. Like cleaning the streets and becoming financially solvent. Accept that Dreamland have absolutely played the Council like a fiddle, develop some business acumen and move on.
There is so much public outrage over this that they have to be seen to be doing something, even if it’s just stating the bleeding obvious like saying it is “not acceptable”.
Thanetian Blind – I totally agree with your post – as for business acumen and TDC, not a chance of that being a reality. We are told everything costed and no debt! Not a chance of that happening. Roll on next elections and rid of most of the circus that is led by clowns!
Sadly, I’m not convinced that anyone else at TDC would be an improvement. It’s a total lost cause, which is why nearly everyone will be glad to see it go.
Yes Peter I agree,but Ministers do have powers even with billionaires. That’s the whole problem with a Britain that works only for those that can get their hand on assets It’s time that government both national and local got a backbone
This part of Thanet has swallowed up large amounts of public money yet things only get better for a short time and then get worse, both Dreamland and Arlington house have been problems because a District council any district council is too small, even though it thinks it isn’t to manage these issues. As for BT’s insolvency claim over TDC what is his solution and is it necessary.TDC is not flush with cash, and there was a time when I thought they were in Carey street,but I think they can last long enough to be folded into a Unitary, where there are some councils that won’t.That’s the problem with the blind thanetian, he articulates rage, but not answers that don’t involve being nasty to the poor and anyone not considered the full English.
“He” ?
Well George you’re quite incorrect right from the start. And that’s without dissecting the rest of the drivel you spout.