Dreamland bosses are to be called in to Thanet council’s scrutiny committee to answer questions about the decision to stop running the Scenic Railway.
Deputy council leader Cllr Helen Whitehead says although the authority has ‘no direct control’ over the ceasing of ride operations, members can ask for details of the Health and Safety Executive report that Dreamland says has advised that to operate the ride they would need to implement a daily inspection routine.
Dreamland says it is not viable for them to complete these daily inspections, which they say engineers indicate would take up to five hours each day, and so the view is that the park is no longer able to operate the ride.
Cllr Whitehead says the council has asked for copies of the HSE and relevant structural reports and external agency guidance.
She has also written directly to the government’s Secretary of State for culture to ask for an extension of the protection of listed assets significant due to their function – such as the Scenic Railway – so that they are protected for their structure, but also their function and active usage wherever possible.
She added: “The Scenic Railway is a huge heritage asset, not only locally but nationally and internationally. It is the only one of its kind in the country.
“If the Scenic Railway is genuinely unsafe and not viable as a ride due to that, then it is obviously necessary to ensure that residents are safe.
“However, until we have seen the full reports, surveys, and the feedback from funding bodies, I would strongly argue that a single press release closing the ride is a vastly premature action, as residents need to see and understand exactly what advice has been given, and what makes the ride “unviable” in terms of the checks required.
“I don’t believe that extra maintenance means that something becomes unviable; and the council and residents need to see everything that has led to that judgement, and with the involvement of Overview and Scrutiny, I fully expect Dreamland to attend the meeting to enable that.
“This is part of our culture as well as our history, and as a Grade II* listed structure it is of huge national importance; and we need more information on its condition and future than a press release.”
Questions have been raised over the ‘five hour’ daily inspection that Dreamland says would need to be carried out. Daily inspections of rides are generally routine but some say five hours is an excessive estimate.
Former Scenic brakeman Matthew Craft, from Margate, was part of the crew in 2015/16.
The dad-of-three said: “I was there the year it reopened. I started on a normal ride and after about four weeks got an email to say I was going on the Scenic.
“The trains were brought out at 8am/9am and before anything happened the engineers would walk up the ‘hill’ and inspect the cables, there were scrupulous checks on the trains, the handles and friction.
“The bars would be inspected and the seat belts and the emergency brakes.
“You’d sit in the middle, they’d (engineer) be at the front and then do three laps with the train empty as slow as possible to make sure it was connecting and the new braking system was working. You’d be pulling the lever and when you went down the hill at speed you could hear it connecting.
“Once the laps were done it would be double checked again and you’d get all the ride operators on to fill it up with people and do another three laps. We would be open at 11am. I’d say that took between 30 and 90 minutes total. I don’t know where they have got five hours from.”
The Scenic Railway marks its 106th anniversary this year as a central plank of Dreamland.
It was subject to a major rebuild after a fire in 2008 destroyed all the original trains and about a quarter of the timber superstructure.
It was rebuilt as part of a broader initiative to rejuvenate Dreamland amusement park. On 16 November 2009, the Dreamland Trust/Thanet council received grant money to restore the Scenic Railway and other historic areas of the park.
Topbond Plc of Kent were contracted to rebuild the woodwork, while WGH Engineering from Doncaster restored the ride’s mechanical operation.
After a few delays and a stressful build, the Scenic Railway reopened to the public on 15 October 2015.
The Dreamland Trust says funding included grants from the National Lottery Heritage Fund, Sea Change, and the Coastal Communities Fund, and was explicitly intended to support the Scenic Railway’s ongoing operation for a period lasting until 2037.
The restoration project involved some £18 million in funding, including £4 million from Thanet council.
In 2020/ 2021 Thanet council sold the Dreamland freehold to operator Sands Heritage Ltd for £7million – Dreamland park, cinema, scenic railway, rides and intellectual property, completed was sold for £2.3million and the former council owned car park was sold for £4.7m.
In December 2023 it was revealed the Dreamland company Sands Heritage has been taken over by LN Gaiety Holdings, a subsidiary of concert and festival giant Live Nation, meaning the park had a new owner. The focus has most recently been on live music concerts with Dreamland pulling in big names from Noel Gallagher’s High Flying Birds, Paul Weller, Tom Grennan, and Tom Jones, Madness, Bastille, The Libertines, Sister Sledge, Dizzee Rascal and more.
Live Nation (Music) UK Limited is listed as having ceased to have significant control of LN Gaiety on 1 April 2025.
Sands Heritage Limited and AG Margate Propco 2 Limited -holder of Dreamland plots including the area proposed for a hotel- are both listed as subsidiaries of LN Gaiety.
It is understood ownership of the Scenic may be retained under Sands Heritage Ltd.
The Scenic Railway was put out of action by damage to the wooden track in the summer of 2024 and has remained shut since then.
A spokesperson for the National Lottery Heritage Fund said there have been discussions with Dreamland about the safety of the Scenic Railway.
They said: “In January 2012 we awarded a grant of £5.8m to Thanet District Council and the Dreamland Trust to restore the derelict amusement site in Margate known as Dreamland, of which the Scenic Railway is one element.
“We recognise the importance of the much-loved Grade II listed Scenic Railway on the site. We have been involved in discussions with Dreamland Margate regarding the safety challenges and we’re encouraged that Dreamland are exploring how it might be reinterpreted and re-imagined.
“At the Heritage Fund, we’re committed to saving the heritage in our communities and will continue to work with Dreamland Margate to look at future possibilities for The Scenic Railway.”
The Historic Coaster Foundation says it is ‘furious’ at the decision to retire the Scenic Railway/
A statement from the organisation says: “We at the Historic Coaster Foundation are beyond furious with (the) decision to permanently close the Scenic Railway at Dreamland Margate. “This Grade II* listed roller coaster which was designed by John Henry Iles and opened on July 3rd, 1920, is one of the most historically significant wooden coasters in the world and the oldest coaster in the UK.
“Its closure is not just a loss, it is a massive failure of stewardship toward an irreplaceable piece of cultural and engineering heritage. After the devastating arson attack in 2008 when the Scenic Railway was severely damaged, the Dreamland Heritage Trust and the public came together to raise the money needed to restore and reopen the coaster in 2015. Not only was it rebuilt, but funding was secured to keep it operating through 2037.
“If a heritage trust and ordinary people could raise the funds to restore this coaster after damage of that magnitude, how is it that a party with greater resources cannot do the same after damage in 2024 that is minuscule in comparison? This decision shows a blatant disregard for heritage preservation and the responsibility that comes with operating a listed historic attraction. The Scenic Railway deserves care, investment, and respect. Not abandonment.
“We strongly condemn this decision and will advocate for the preservation of this important piece of amusement park heritage.”
Dreamland have played a blinder here. Got given grants and money on the promise of Dreamland bying a vintage fun park.
Then slowly slowly put a few rides i to make it seem like it was happening. But behind the scenes the music venue was growing with more and more gigs. Then the rides started to be sold of as more and more gigs took over.
Now they shut the main reason for Dreamland being a vintage theme park the grade 2 listed roller coaster.
Dreamland have played everyone for numpites. When I say everyone I dont mean the public as most saw this coming.
I think all the grants given towards Dreamland being a vintage theme park should be repaid.
And TDC are in a Catch 22 situation: They either allow them to carry on doing whatever they like, or they stop them putting on concerts making the whole site “unviable”.
Well Live Nation Gaetiy whatevs have been responsible for the deaths of young people. It would appear TDC plays dead when it gets serious! Where are the covenants in the sale of TDC assets to prevent this sort of merde?
Totally agree they need to pay back all of the grant money, im glad the council are looking into it. I cannot believe it would take 5hrs to inspect it just looks like an excuse to close it, maybe the council wont look favourably at future planning applications they may want apply for.
Dreamland died when the original “World’s Biggest” big wheel went to Mexico City 40 years ago.
For all their representing we the people and acting on our behalf to preserve yet another cherished cultural icon… I’d love to know who was the last elected member to ride the Scenic Railway and when that was?
That meeting in full
Everitt-where are the millions you were given for the theme park?
Kemsley-blew it all on the music venue
Everitt-well don’t do it again
Kemsley-sorry old chap
Everitt-case closed, now let’s get back to serious matters like trying to close local shops, fining people for swearing, fining people for smoking, making more debt ridden art hubs, more millions on digital skills courses for jobs that aren’t in Thanet-while the area rots etc.
I can almost hear that conversation.
Oh Helen give it up! Scrutiny what aloud of rubbish! You all can’t event scrutinise before the decision are made. The oversight at TDC is dire. Shame on councillor whitehead and this absolutely useless labour cabinet.
Thanet is dead .some awful turner art centre that millions was spent on is all thats left. Hopefully when Tdc realise that knowone visits because Dreamland has lost its main ride .They might fix it . Or suddenly it will burn down 10yrs time there will be 100s of flats on that site . Like the the winter gardens will be . Biggest crock corner of the uk is thanet counci.more back handers than a tennis tournament. SHAME ON YOU PEOPLE .
And The Tunnels! Literally Ramsgate’s hidden gem.
Whilst all the anger seems firmly going towards Live Nation…. I would suggest – anger should be towards those that took all the money to “restore” the ride. They clearly didn’t do a good job. All that money paid and it’s now unusable. It seems multiple parties need to get round a table and work this out – the health and safety lot, the owners, the heritage lot, the local council and I would hope government as so much money is involved.
It’s clear someone took a lot of money and didn’t deliver
The Health & Safety Executive report will most interesting to read, as a truly independent government body. If Dreamland have misrepresented the report, that’s another issue. I am also interested in why the HSE were involved? Were they investigating an incident or accident or had someone reached out to them with concerns?
Hardly a surprise. Were there no conditions/clauses in the sale contract ? If not then just another example of what could at best be considered “an oversight” by TDC in its haste to sell the park.
All the fuss about the time to do a daily inspection is pointless without knowing what the inspection regime is. But if it includes inspection of some of the elevated sections, you end up with risk assessments, daily briefings, working at height legislation, compilation and recording of results etc etc. Not hard to imagine that the full inspection could take 5 hours in its entirety.
The park now being owned by what is primrily a music promoter theyy are’nt interested in the scenic railway or the rest of the park.
I stand by comments innthe past , that once the development condition has expired , the planning application will be in the post.
TDC have hardly been shining beacons when it comes to maintaining heritage assets, winter gardens, theatre royal, margate town hall, tudor house, granville, ramsgate clock house, royal crescent, ones that spring to mind.
They only do work to buildings when they’ve managed to scrounge money from elsewhere.
They hardly have a high horse to preach from.
It is a shame that LN Gaiety were allowed to buy Dreamland, although once sold by TDC there wasn’t a lot that could prevent it.
1 of the oldest amusement parks in the country with the oldest wooden scenic railway in the country, has become a music venue (with a few rides).
There are many reports that Margate is starting to be popular again. Pity there won’t be the amusement park to go to in a few year’s time.
I am confused as to why Dreamland are moaning about it taking 5 hours to do the daily checks for the scenic.
Surely the checks now needed are the same checks needed 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 years ago or did it used to be “Bert” looking up and saying “looks safe”.
Aren’t all rides checked thoroughly every day?
Back in the Bembom Brothers days we used to do a 2 hour inspection of all the rides from 8 – 10 am every morning. tTe Scenic had 3 guys led by Dick Faulkner who used to do a complete track walk checking for any damage or parts that needed repairing, a thorough check of the pull up system and any other electrical parts (lights, alarm systems etc), complete check of the trains from brakes to safety bars, check of the station and the barriers, checking the fencing surrounding the ride etc etc. That was done every day before the park was opened, same goes for every ride in the park. If they haven’t been doing daily safety checks down Dreamland of the rides then I’m shocked and quite concerned.
Health and safety requirements have moved on in the last 20 odd years. Plus my understanding is that the scenic railway is the only (or one of very few) rides actually owned by dreamland. The rest of the rides are hired in/buy a space. So gaeity only have the railway to be fully responsible for. A team of operators/engineers/inspectors for just one ride will be expensive, let alone the admin and back room support that would be needed. As was likely from the very day of the sale, the scenic railway is unwanted by anyone. It was only ever going to have had a chnce under the original vision of a “ heritage “ theme park. That did’nt happen and the ride is now just an expensive white elephant.
That’s their tough pooey. An agreement is an agreement, especially when it’s been funded for years to come.
I remember a few years back the press reported that certain rides were in storage, imagine my surprise when I spotted it on Hastings seafront … Its been there ever since.
wow you leave Thanet ! with such narrow minded views I am surprised you leave your keyboard suzie darling..
Including the old caterpillar ride that’s been dumped by one of the Eaton Road entrances and left to rust.
I can’t even begin to explain how angry I am by the decision to retire the ride. Please, please, TDC, do what you can to keep this beautiful historic attraction going. Dreamland, Sands Heritage and LN, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
i think we should see an opportunity and not a loss , if this old railway was to be sawn up for firewood , it would supply local pensioners with free heating for this winter and probably beyond , it will also clear the site for the houses that are coming , i see it as a win win for thanet.
real world.
You really are a childish idiot. I guess you crave attention unless, of course, that was your idea of ‘humour’?
Sadly, “firewood” is probably the most likely outcome for a disused fairground ride in Margate.
Yes, and housing, apart from Council taxes do not bring in tourism do they? That to me is a very short-sighted view.
Dear Scenic Railway Lovers,
When I was a small boy in the 50’s, my grandfather used to take my sister and me to Dreamland on a Thursday morning to go on the engineering check rides for free rides. The then chief engineer used to complete his checks in about an hour and a half and then we would ride all the cars for about 30 minutes. The park would then open for the day at 14h00. These new checks look like balonie to me; what do you think?
I gather the scenic railway was functioning and in working order when the current owners took over the vintage park and the Cinema. It seems both cultural assets even though of special listed status and of local and national significance have deteriorated under the stewardship of this outfit.
Surely it’s time now for both to be relinquished by Nation/ gaiety with their agreement, so that a suitable community based management/ charitable structure is established to oversee and develop these community assets. This is unlikely to be easy but should be possible, something that TDC could be raising in any discussions with Nation / gaiety.
They clearly have little or no interest in preserving or developing these community cultural assets. This was clearly established a year or so ago when they turned down the possibility of £3 million grant which they would have to match fund to would have to match fund to continue with the restoration of the cinema
Why would they even consider “relinquishing” the site that they paid for on a freehold basis? Were there any “continued use” clauses in the sale agreement between tdc and (iirc) the sands group that bought the park and freehold? Would those agreements have been transferred to Gaeity ? With the various ownership statuses and holdings, who would any legal proceedings be taken against? If there’s even a case to be answered.
Dreamland has turned into a prime example of millions in public funds being squandered with no real plan or oversight , ending in a corporate body having control of a significant chunk of margates prime seafront and adjacent land for minimal investment.
As for the cinema deteriorating under gaeity’s ownership, ask around and listen to what happened to all the original brass work that had adorned the cinema’s interior whilst under tdc’s stewardship.
When the park reopened, it was patently obvious that it was always intended to be a very limited site in the longterm. Just look at the sudden change in lanscaping and construction as you move away from the “amphitheatre”.
We just need to wait for the development restriction to expire to see what the grand plan has always been.
All the outrage is just hot air and political posturing.