Thanet council is likely to approve plans to buy the leasehold interest in Royal Harbour multi-storey car park, Ramsgate.
In the 1970s the council owned site in Leopold Street was leased to a finance company. The finance company funded the construction of the multi-storey and then leased it back to the council.
The lease term is 1975-2073 and there are no break options.
The current rent payable is £227,189 per year with the next rent review in July 2025. This is expected to bring the rate to more than £300,000.
In 2017 Thanet council agreed t buy both Mill Lane and Leopold multi-storey car parks. Mill Lane was successfully purchased, but the option to purchase Leopold was not exercised.
The estimated cost to buy the Ramsgate multi-storey next year is estimated at £3,626,976 + VAT. Stamp duty land tax would be due on the purchase price but the VAT would be recoverable, providing that the property continues to be used as a car park.
Agenda papers say the purchase would result in an overall saving to Thanet council: “If the rent were to remain at the forecast review level of £302,248 pa, (which it would not) for the 48 year remaining lease term, the cost to the council would be £14,507,904 in rent payments. If the option to purchase is exercised the loan and interest costs would be £12,725,088 in total, providing a saving of £1,782,816 over the same number of years as the unexpired lease.
“If the rental growth rate experienced over the recent reviews is applied for the remainder of the lease, it is estimated that the total rental payments due could amount to £27,641,838 over the 48 year period. The financial saving in purchasing the landlord’s interest, to the council under this scenario, could be £14,916,750.”
£3m of the required funding is already allocated within the agreed Capital Programme but the remainder, around £1m including costs and stamp duty, would be met by borrowing or from existing treasury balances until favourable long term borrowing rates are available.
Council officers say purchasing the multi-storey would give TDC flexibility to consider alternative uses or redevelopment of the site in the future, and potentially benefit from capital appreciation.
They add that the car park currently runs at a loss of over £100,000 per year.
The issue will be discussed by councillors on the scrutiny committee on December 10 before going to Cabinet for approval.
In February 2023 the “disgusting” and “dangerous” state of the Royal Harbour multi-storey car park led to calls to make it exempt from a hike in parking charges.
The issue was raised by Labour and Green councillors at the then-Conservative run administration.
Thanet council is imposing a 10% rise broadly across all fees and charges, including off-street parking, as part of the authority’s 2023/24 budget.
Labour leader Rick Everitt proposed a freeze charges at the Leopold Street in light of its disgusting state, issues with antisocial behaviour and lifts that had not worked since before the pandemic.
But, the council says it has been working to improve the facilities at the Royal Harbour Car Park.
Cllr Kristian Bright, Cabinet Member for Parking, said: “A contract has been signed for the replacement of the lifts at the site. Due to the nature of the space, the lifts must be custom built and installation is now expected to take place in 2025.
“Ramsgate’s Royal Harbour Car Park and Mill Lane Car Park, in Margate, now both receive a regular deep clean, with stairwells given a high pressure wash every month.”
Work is also scheduled to take place at car parks in Margate and St Peter’s.
Cllr Bright said: “The car parks at Manor House, off Hartsdown Road in Margate, and Hopeville Avenue in St Peter’s are scheduled for resurfacing.
“Manor House is first up and will be closed from Wednesday 4 December with a view to reopening by the evening of Friday 6 December. Work on the Hopeville Avenue car park will follow with closure planned from Monday 9 December to Thursday 12 December.”
It is incredible that with the ridiculously high parking charges in Thanet, that the Leopold street car parking is costing the council £100,000 a year. Whoever signed to that contract should have been hung drawn and quartered.
Only after you’ve hung those that use the stairwell as a toilet and as a result it needs pressure washing each month. Surely its a prime example of where cctv would be beneficial ?
Knock it down. Barely used, over priced and in a shocking state, with really confusing signage and closure times. And I agree, Thanet really does seem to sign up to preposterously expensive leases without break clauses or much benefit to the community.
Use Stafford St instead, also barely used.
“Knock it down. Barely used, over priced and in a shocking state, with really confusing signage and closure times.”
A bit harsh, but this does sum up Margate very well.
At a cost of 14m.
Leased it to whom
They lease it back.
Yet again no maintenance or cleansing
Face it THANET COUNCIL YOU ARE IN DEBT
In 2017 Kathy a report came out then to purchase the car parks. At a cost of £23m.
The council state the land was leased to a finance company and then leased back to the council.
Feels like people are having wool over there eyes in all honesty. As the council say they pay rent but to whom I am interested in.
I don’t want to put you off your rant Fluff, but Leopold Street is in Ramsgate.Anyway, what’s it to you how much the car park charges,you don’t drive and are constantly extolling the bus.
As for hanging, drawing ,and quartering people ( what lovely people you are ), those responsible have long gone to meet their creator.
The history of the site is interesting and sums up TDC to a tee. I agree with reducing the numbers of car parking spaces in urban areas. I would knock it down and offer park and ride facilities at that useless Thanet parkway site. I would encourage bus travel and discourage travelling by car in urban areas.
“Ramsgate’s Royal Harbour Car Park and Mill Lane Car Park, in Margate, now both receive a regular deep clean, with stairwells given a high pressure wash every month.”
Give yet another reason for people to not enter towns. This utopia you have where cars don’t exist just ends in shut down businesses. What we need is free short term parking to encourage people back
Ten -We do still have buses and trains. Having a car doesn’t mean you have to drive it.
All well and good, but buses are being cut George. And people simply cannot just abandon their cars. It is an unrealistic vision, often privileged. As it is you cannot get to the largest GP centre in Ramsgate by bus, nor can you rely on the loop for QEQM appointment times unless you get their hours early. I used to go to work in Canterbury by bus, also a slashed service in recent years and indeed, Parkway. Bus stop, no bus service. Buses are also sparse at night. They’re simply not a reliable alternative.
Discouraging cars is part of why our town centres are in ruin. People simply go out of town or online. What they don’t do is get the bus to Westwood. Only large cities have the scale, and subsidy if we note TfL, for enormous bus provision. Town centres need ad hoc visitors. That requires parking, and at rates that are cheaper than Kensington & Chelsea.
I voted Labour because they promised to drastically improve and subsidise bus services. Sadly, this turned out to be yet another lie – they instead quickly increased fares by 50%!
It’s because the focus has, for years, been on facilitating driving, that bus services have been cut and cut. No one, not the most socialist of governments is going to pay for a bus service that no one ever uses.
But the emphasis on car use, by (for example) building out-of-town shopping centres, leads to the emptying of town centres. Then claims are made that towns are falling because car parking is too expensive, deterring people. This is not so. People are drawn away by the shopping malls and the prospect of “free” parking. (Of course it’s not free).
Not everyone can or wants to drive. The young, the elderly and the infirm have no option. If they want to go anywhere, they have to use a bus, if there is one, or an expensive taxi.
If you think about the damage car infrastructure has caused us, then maximising public transport and cycling is a no-brainer.
The Leopold St car park, at its best, is a hideous concrete lump. Compare this with the Edwardian and Victorian houses in whose midst it sits.
Look at Harbour Parade. A row of establishments offering alfresco café experiences- but the only parade you’ll see is a parade of cars, rather than the Royal Harbour.
The young need to use buses or taxis? In many countries they’d instead CYCLE – but that’s treated as something almost freakish here.
It’s because the focus has, for years, been on facilitating driving?
Are you a total idiot? Do you read the news?
Not only do I read the news, but I travel extensively by public transport, cycle and walk.
It is a fact that whilst rail fares have endured inflation busting rises over many years and bus routes cut, fuel duty has remained unchanged.
During Covid, measures were put in place to encourage cycling and walking. Following huge howls of protest from drivers in Westgate, that scheme was rapidly dismantled, as were all the others as the worst effects of the pandemic eased.
Your argument is not improved by being abusive.
Alex Peters- Andrew is absolutely correct about car-driving being encouraged by consecutive governments, and public transport run-down by them.
£100k is a huge subsidy to motorists, shame the money can’t be better spent to improve local public transport. The charges should be increased until it covers its costs, why should car drivers rather than bus passengers get subsidised access to town?
Absolutely.
A bus, which takes up the space of three cars, can hold up to 60 passengers .. about 45 cars’ worth.
Just imagine how quiet, calm and empty our streets would be if people got out of their cars and uses buses instead.
Or cycled.
You might have got the impression that Checksfield knows what he is talking about regarding buses, but alas,his political views got the better of him again.
The bus industry will receive £1.1Bn from the treasury, including BSOG, which subsidises their fuel. BSOG needs reforming because fossil fuel gets the most subsidy, when renewable diesel or electricity ought to be given more funding.This money does not include concessionary fares, and these make up 28% of the fares taken by the industry this year. The fare cap stays at least in the short term, albeit at a higher level.
I suspect there will be other grants in the system to fund more ZEB electric buses. Labour favours franchising, and seeing how KCC have made a mess of the alternative ‘enhanced partnership’, you can see why.
On the very day that KCC was awarded £23m to support bus services, Stagecoach SE announced a raft of further bus service cuts, so perhaps both Stagecoach and KCC are their own worst enemies.
The industry suggests that a bus can replace upto 70 car journeys, as many double deckers are registered to take that number, including standees.
STOP MENTIONING MY NAME IN EVERY POST, YOU WEIRDO!!!
1 we are where we are
2 the original contract in 1975 was terrible for Thanet and has for us to where we are now.
3 Whilst I don’t like the fact we’re having to but our the lease for so much money. Getting control back allows us to look at better ways forward.
4 let’s get ownership back and then have a consultation that actually listens as to what the best way forward is.
Obsessing about buses and judging those who drive is quite frankly, ridiculous. People drive. Fact. People like to drive. Fact. Why shouldn’t they? Getting on a bus might be good virtue signalling but in the real world people need to use their cars. Let’s not lament that housewifey no longer walks down to the greengrocer every day. I’m not saying all change is for the better but stop the car bashing. It really is the preserve of the privileged. Let’s get on a bus. Sure, and go to work, the shops, do my caring responsibilities and then child care. All on the loop. Marvellous.
What do you suggest we do to fight the obesity epidemic?
Your single minded obsession with weight is unhealthy,weird even!
Perhaps you ought to watch the BBC programme on the food industry and its activities in promoting ultra processed food, presented by Dr VanTullekan.He points out that obesity was not a major issue until the mid 1980’s when the food industry cane out with new processes and additives.He points out that such large numbers give the lie to the claim by the self righteous that it’s all a matter of will.As he said it us unreasonable to think that large numbers of people became obese because they did not exercise all of a sudden.
I would watch it.The programme may be informative, especially as the tobacco industry is involved.
Why haven’t I got fat then? Oops, I forgot, I exercise regularly and avoid addictive junk (and yes, I did watch that so-called “documentary”, a load of rubbish). Anyway, I’m off for a stroll, as I need to buy some fresh fruit and veg.
I also suggest you visit countries like Holland and Belgium: similar food is available, but so many more people have daily exercise.
People like to drive. True.
People need to drive. False.
Sometimes they do. There are many areas even in East Kent with no buses and no shops.
I need to drive
I’m sorry to hear that.
Have you tries therapy??
Have you “tries” writing properly?
How would you suggest people do a care work job consisting of multiple locations a day?
Or someone caring for parents a few miles away each day?
People need to drive.
Stop virtue signalling.
A few miles away? Cycle.
When I get on a bus or train (I’ve been using public transport since I was a child,- my parents and grandparents never had a car) I never think of it as “virtue-signalling” – it’s just normal behaviour as far as I’m concerned.
In other parts of Europe the buses and trains are often a lot easier to get around using than messing around with a car. It’s sad that our system is so poor in comparison.
They have cycle lanes that are separated from both traffic and pedestrians. If we had that here, I’d be cycling from Birchington to Westwood Cross all the time.