‘Beach-themed’ coloured cladding on a property extension in Ramsgate has been deemed ‘visually intrusive,’ by a council planning officer.
The owners of the property in London Road, Sue Brown and husband Doug – who is a former Thanet council head of development – may have to dismantle the work if retrospective permission is denied.
The application is due to be discussed by councillors on Thanet’s planning committee next week but the officer has recommended its refusal, saying: “The development, by virtue of the colour and finish of the cladding to the extension and front facade, exacerbated by the dwelling’s prominent corner position and location in the road results in a visually intrusive, incongruous and discordant form of development, which is architecturally unrelated to the application property, is detrimental to the character and appearance of the area, and contrary to Policy QD02 of the Thanet Local Plan.”
The approved extension was proposed to be white render with grey UPVC windows and doors but is now white, grey and blue stripes alongside a with a ‘beach hut’ style silhouette.
One letter of objection was submitted to the council. A further 16 letters of support were also received with one saying: “The proposal gives so much pleasure, especially with the conditions we currently live in.”
Ramsgate Heritage Design Forum has objected, saying “the colours and design are discordant and visually obtrusive.”
A report to councillors says: “The proposed development is considered to be at odds with the host property, and will result in a significantly harmful effect upon the street scene.”
However, there has been support voiced by residents on the We Love Ramsgate facebook page with the majority saying they enjoy seeing the creative house front.
Councillors will discuss the application on April 14.
I wonder if the ‘planning officer’ in question has actually seen some of the latest housing estates in Thanet that he’s passed for building.
Yes, I wonder also
Personally think it is a positive addition what with it being a seaside holiday town!
Allowing this to remain when the original planning application was for a different design will give a precedent for people to build whatever they want, regardless of planning regulations. Whether the neighbours like the beach-hut look or not seems scarcely relevant.
They do that already.
” will give a precedent for people to build whatever they want, regardless of planning regulations”
I mean, Jenrick stating he’s ripping up planning regulations for all whom want to build kinda blow your point right out the water there.
This is already happening, my next door neighbour objected to my legal planning application, despite the fact they built a monstrosity of an extension over 1.5 higher than the conservatory that was knocked down, caused misery in the street with work being carried out 7 days a week and until 9.30 pm at nigh including the last Easter bank holiday!
The planning department wrote to me saying it was a monor issue!, even before their plans were put in and the fact was already built!
Utter joke when you follow the current laws of the land!, so why bother when you can get away with it!
That’s sad Terry, I feel for you. But at least it’s not an unwanted cargo hub with old polluting planes flying 24/7 straight over your house at 500ft.
Whether or not the neighbours like the design seems irrelevant. The applicants put in an application for a different design. If they are allowed to keep this one, then what is the use of planning regulations? Anyone will be able to build whatever they want, as this case will have set a precedent.
Marva both your comments are correct, but this ‘deviance from plan’ concerns only colour. The extension itself was approved. There are many many more egregious departures from planning that not only ignore small detail but the major plan itself, that are regularly passed. I understand the owner is an ex-TDC planning officer. Might I hypothesise that there may be some axes being ground.
You go on about the airport, if it was a loud to go ahead and reopen as a international airport this would have created thousands of jobs which thanet need, but no stick in the mud people like yourselfs stop any good think which can help thanet grow ,rules are in place for everyone the x councillor didn’t still to the plans so take it down
Marva, individual planning cases do not set precedent. Each is taken on its merits. If a case eventually goes to Court, ending in a judgement either way, they may stand as a precedent. But within the Borough or Council, that’s not so. Not with purely to contradict you, I hope you understand, simply setting out how “precedent” in planning law works.
But that isn’t the basis of the council officer’s objection, and many people are given retropective consent. It seems is only the paintwork that is being objected to, anyway, not the actual building, and lots of people find it attractive and appropriate for the location.
I think you are just being pertantic.
Yes there certainly had to limits to what one can, and cannot erect.
The Council planners don’t seem to worry how much they allow beautiful agricultural land to be blighted, but condemn I individual.
That’s modern day democracy I guess
Bang on Marva! The original Planning application was agreed presumably also by the neighbours, no matter if the outcome is different, the point is if people are allowed to break the law with impunity, where will it all end?
Thanks Dumpton.
“the point is if people are allowed to break the law with impunity, where will it all end?”
Just wait for Jenricks planning regs rip up to come into force. Already announced. You’ll all be crying into your cornflakes for months.
Thay haven’t built it differently to the plan, they have painted it differently and put some seaside bits up to make it fit in with the fact that it’s a seaside town. You really should learn not to speak! You should have been swallowed!!
If someone was complaining about MY house I’d tell them where to go as its MY HOUSE. So many karens taking happiness away from others even when it doesnt affect them. Slam the door in their face and tell them to f*** off, job done.
What are “karens”?
I drive past this property regularly and it’s so uplifting. Who is this planning officer, and who are ‘Ramsgate Heritage Design Forum’. What a bunch of prissy idiots. Drive down London Road and see how well it looks compared to many of the sad houses down there. Sue and Doug Brown, I salute you. Well done.
Beach type pictures have a good feel factor for me. I have lots of pictures of lighthouses, beach huts, boats and seagulls in my kitchen. I, too, applaud it.
I can guarantee the ‘Ramsgate Heritage Design Forum’ are all of a certain age and all on the right wing of the political scale.
Can you really? Well, I am not “on the right-wing of the political scale” but I think this beach-hut look is very much out of place. I will not be objecting on the planning portal because the planning officer quoted in the article has already said what I would have written.
Its out of character with the rest of the houses in the area and looks like it was thrown together by people shopping at B&M/The Range for Garden supplies…
Coming from someone who can’t spell “concerned” think you should go back to school before you join in the adult conversations!!!
All the houses in the area are a variety and it’s a beach side town! It’s more the other crap an boring looking houses with dumb arses like you living in them thinking there shit not stink!! RETARD!
I think “Conserned” probably does know how to spell it properly.
It’s nice and has some actual character. Council don’t like that, back in your grey box.
I think it looks fresh and airy and fits in well in a seaside location.
A breath of fresh air and d it should stay.
I think the regulations for anything in this country sucks if you buy a house you should be able to do what the hell you want with it not have some lazy git from an office say thing I don’t like that it will have to go
Heaven forbid there should be such a free-for-all! The planning decisions are not made on the grounds of personal like or dislike.
Wow. Really?? I’ve passed this property recently and the first thing it made me do was smile. We are a seaside area after all. There are some ugly properties in Thanet. In my personal opinion this is not one of them and it is of a seaside theme. Who gave permission for the great big grey monstrosity on Margate sea front in the 60’s I wonder? Oh yes Thanet Council 🤣
PS – Apologies for the grammatical error (past not passed…oops 😉)
No – you were correct the first time . . .
Even though it looks like a poundshop renovation job?
I hope the council official is reading the comments. There should be more seaside themed houses at seaside towns. It’s a fabulous look & entirely appropriate.
It’s a crude and obtrusive look.Okay for a beach hut.
Presume you are the moaning Minnie who reported it!
Yes what a miserable cow
If you look at the planning website you will see that it was a neighbour, but I don’t live nearby.
So why comment if not live there so has no affect or concern to you!! To answer your question earlier,you are a Karen!
I presume you’re an ass, whom regularly makes an ass of themselves by presuming they know whom people are, when they’re not that person.
Coming from someone who can’t spell concerned! RETARD
But what exactly is a Karen?
Have a look around the town centre. Where is the connection between town and beach? Where is the feelgood character of what is supposed to be a seaside town. Where is the colour that reflects our nearby beach. All destroyed by the council. The owners of this characterful house should be employed to rejuvinate Ramsgate. Perhaps they should also be allowed to do something with the dreadful Turner Gallery also. However, in the meantime, you should take a good look at the decrepit town centre of Ramsgate and perhaps give it a good hose down and tidy it up considerably.
Reply to David Russell.There are people from Margate, Broadstairs etc who have actually submitted comments on the planning portal.Are you suggesting that their comments are invalid because of where they live?
Moaning councillor – cheer up
not a councilor
Looks fantastic
Well done in turning this down.
It’s ghastly, and quite out of place. It’s not a beach hut. It’s an extension on a house well away from the nearest bit of sea.
Phyllis are you trying a wind up? There’s a view from there straight across to Pegwell Bay, hardly out of place. Pray submit a photo of your house and let us all judge its ghastliness or otherwise.
Its a “poundshop” renovation job, that is out of character with the rest of the buildings in the area.
Its apt for thanet and the kiss me quick vibes these towns have always had though.
Cheap, tacky and a quickly, cheaply painted facade…
By the way, if you meant to be known as concerned, it’s spelled with a c, not an s.
thanks Mr Pedant it has been peeing me off for a long time.
There is another person who comments on various IoTN articles using the pseudonym “Concerned”.
Really Phyllis!?!?? Your a bit special in the head if you think it’s not keeping with a seaside town! Maybe if the likes of you moved away to a boring, plain house elsewhere make the rest of us happy to live in a bright town and have smiles on faces not having to worry if do something nice that some snobby tw*t like you tries to ruin!
Phyllis Quot clearly thinks, as do I, that the “beach hut”look suits beach huts but is not in keeping with an ordinary street. Insulting us is really not going to change our minds.
Both special in the head then and maybe should go live in Liverpool or Manchester or London where there is plenty of dull, boring buildings that look depressed and ugly! Sounds like it be right up your street, marva rees!!! Going be dull else where!!
I have lived in London. I like unobtrusive buildings, especially terraced housing.
I think it looks great and definitely adds to the ‘Being at the Seaside’ feel! It obviously took thought and a community spirit to do this, jolly well done to Sue and Doug!
Who the hell are ramsgate heritage design forum? The only reference I can find is on an architect’s page where they are described as a forum “that promotes and advises on projects in the Ramsgate Conservation Area and Heritage Action Zone.” I wasn’t aware London Road was in either, and may I politely suggest that they butt out – none of their business, they are obviously a bunch of small minded old fuddy-duddies.
If you want a laugh, look at the Ramsgate Heritage Design Forum website members list https://www.rhdf.org.uk/members Looks like their design skills are somewhat lacking! Maybe they should refrain from commenting on other peoples’ far better executed designs.
I have looked. I don’t think forum members will be pleased when they do.
Ramsgate Heritage Design Forum website shows that they are based in Nashville, Tennessee!
Hard to see how they are placed to comment on Thanet matters.
Erm when I used that link it goes to a web site with a picture of arsenal fc and all the text is in a foreign language !
And a very old picture of arsenal as well lol got to be nearly 10 years old lol
Latin.
That has nothing to do with design skills, but content filling skills. The design work, for a website is impeccable. Clean, simple, easy to read. Something someone who had the faintest idea about design work, would recognise, over being a snarky n0b’ed…
A spiteful and juvenile hacking of the group’s website- where is that going to get anybody?
This house is both a delight and a credit to our seaside town and the owners. It looks absolutely brilliant! It’s charming, well executed and serves as a fantastic welcome to Ramsgate. I thought I’d knock on the door and take some designs tips myself from the owners! Come on, if more people took this much time care and effort on their homes what a wonderful place Ramsgate would be. Keep it! It’s lovely!
Its a poundshop renovation job, and much like Thanet, is a cheap, quickly erected facade. Its also not in keeping with the character of the other properties in the area. They also broke planning law by incorrectly filling out their application, when the work carried out was not listed in said application.
Is that the behaviour you support, Cllr? Breaches of planning law? It’d appear so?!
I think it looks lovely and cheers the road up –
The planning department need to concentrate on huge extensions built with NO planning permission and give them retrospective planning as they have put it up already – yet these people in this house have made it colourful and are getting told off for it !!
TDC need to get their priorities right !!
I love it, looks fantastic
I shall politely refrain from telling everyone what I think, as it is irrelevant to the principle of the thing.
Thereby telling everyone what you think! lol
I love it!! And I’m sure their delightful doggies will fend off the offended!!
What , they’ve got savage dogs too?
Oh that house, i have passed by it a few times and initial thought its quiet nice and suitable for the area.
That estate seems to be visually built to be awfully bland boring in ‘lego block’ fashion when lego had very limited products.
Hey, who ever grassed you up must have their reason. Their details will be available !
Nobody “grassed up” the applicants. A neighbour objected, and the applicants made a revised planning application on the TDC planning portal.
Yea that’s have white and grey ! Dont want anything cheerful in thanet.
Think it looks nice and cheerful
it looks like someone vomited B&M’s latest summer range over the front of the property with no care for it being in character with the rest of the area.
Its wholly indicative of the “me, me, I’m gunna do what I want, cashmeoutside” narcissism culture that has permeated since the rise of the facebook.
Why don’t you sod off out the area then and live in a new build thats a bland, dull rabbit hutch!! Doubt anyone would miss you!
You really should have been swallowed!!
Boring old farts. Looks great.
If they have to remove it. Render the wall Black with a white toilet pan any old fashioned cistern and without a loo roll or toilet brush.
Just cover what you have up now with paper with paper white toilet pan any old fashioned cistern and without a loo roll or toilet brush.
I walk my dog past this house on most days and I love it!
The planning office are not bothered what the folks on albion Street, broadstairs do and they have pulled down part of the towns heritage!! Still no action taken. So why worry about an extension that has a beach theme in a seaside town to it.
If the busy body neighbour hadn’t moaned about it then i doubt anybody would even be discussing it. So wwhat f its blue grey and white striped, its their home, they have to live in it.
Geez you’d think peoplee would have bigger issues to deal with considering we are in a pademic situation.
Id paint it glow in the dark green if they say to repaint it!!
If the owners hadn’t put something on a local facebook page about it, then perhaps people wouldn’t be discussing it. After all, a planning application for one family house doesn’t usually become news .
Beautiful, colourful and well done. Thanet needs more of this to take it away from dull, dirty streets that thanets become. It’s ok to do to shops and call it art, but on your own home?????. Please people let people live,COLOUR MATTERS LOL.
TDC take a look at house on Ramsgate rd near, conault gardens full of cars and rubbish is that the image you want. Better clean and tidy then just filthy rubbish or Cliftonville.
bless your heart thinking TDC envirohealth officers spend their time reading newspaper comments of one of the smallest read publications in the area. HA
Your readership assertion is wrong. We have around 30,000 page views a day. Facebook analytics show greater reader views and engagement with our page than with either Thanet Extra or, generally, Thanet Gazette.
The Council is there to serve the local residents. Perhaps they should consider the wilfully destruction of beautiful arable land before condemning one homeowner who wishes just to make his little castle (home) to his and his families liking. It seems by the majority of comments do far on here that he has local minded approval.
Perhaps he should be greasing someone’s palm in the planning department… That often work for larger developers.
They did consider it. They said, on manston ground, or on the fields surrounding the villages. Do keep up, Squiffs.
My wife and I love it , whenever we drive past it makes us smile we are a seaside town after all. We hope they are aloud to keep there artistic extension. Maybe it eccentric but only in the best British tradition.
It looks brilliant, please keep it , it’s uplifting , good luck with the council !
Bev and Doug, I love it, makes me smile everytime I see your extention. Perhaps you could redesign the Turner centre from horrible and drab to colourful, meaningful and fun to look at
Nah the Turner centre is just how TDC want things ! Grey boring shed like , it’s what the arty sect like. This house is to happy for them.
Like when is graffiti not graffiti when it’s by banksy lol no it’s still graffiti if it’s none by banksy or a local no mark. Only difference being the graffiti by banksy is liked by the arty people !!
Mr X doesn’t understand the uk and its architectural history RE Brutalism and just how much it is loved by both arty and non arty “sects”.
You sound bitter you were never accepted by that crowd. You should smoke some copium.
I live just off the London Road and I think it’s wonderful, it really welcomes you to Ramsgate, it will be so sad it’s it has to be removed! Thankyou Sue and Doug for making us smile everyday
Having had dealings with thanet planning office in the past the female I dealt with had just come out of college no experience on or off the tools as a builder in other words not a bl__dy up about anything .if you own it do what you want with it if people don’t like it don’t look ,I’m personally Pd off with petty council beaurocrats dictating peoes lives , they are useless n
unnecessary individuals who know nothing but self centered ideals ,what may suit them doesn’t suit the individual or owner , when they can afford to buy then they should keep their ideas to the reserves and not insult others .As previously stated take a look at some buildings that have been passed by these self important little Austrian painters ,and we all know what happened to the last painter and good riddance to his ideals .
Healthy amount of sexism you’re sharing with the world there Malcy.
Let the ramsgate heritage forum take a drive along the clifftop Road from Birchington bowling club to minister Bay and see the different architecture there passed by TDC planning ,mock tudor , art deco and architect designed buildings all next to each other all in excess of six figure prices then ask yourselves who passed the plans and how much did it cost to put total different structures next to each other .I for one think they are all nice but it still beggars the question who passed the plans .TDC thats who
Easy, take down the extension problems by adding the render. Then clad the rest of the house the same colours you took down and laugh at the council.
Comparing TDC to Hitler is completely insensitive , offensive an inaccurate.
It’s a seaside town so how is it not keeping with the area?!?! I think they should make the rest of the house in the same theme then the extension is in keeping with the rest of the house it’s adjoined too. If the council allowed brighter more keeping with a seaside town new houses it would brighten up the area rather than the bland, rabbit hutch, ugly new houses they sticking up everywhere.
“It’s a seaside town so how is it not keeping with the area?!?!”
Errr, you opened your eyes and looked at the architectural aesthetics of every other building in that area?
I have lived many many years in and around the area and this is one of a few buildings that keep with the seaside area. The rest of the crap built around that house doesn’t fit in with the area! Again you should have definitely been swallowed by your mum!!
I never knew you had to ask permission from TDC as to what colour you can put on your house. If I want blue cladding blue cladding it is why should I need TDC permission in a non listed area ?
It looks like a modern house so not listed. Really cant see the problem
“If I want blue cladding blue cladding it is why should I need TDC permission in a non listed area ?”
Because that’s planning law, you doughnut.
Is it really!!! So what about all the houses around thanet that are painted either pink,blue,green,yellow that really look tacky and out of place!! Funny knowone from tc has anything to say about them!!! Or the empty properties that there are loads of, or the dirty looking houses that looked like that for years and makes the area look disgusting and then there the likes of you in the area which is the worst of the lot!! If you don’t like it then f**k off elsewhere you bland tw*t
Tell the owner to knock it down than put it in the turner centre and it will sell for millions !
I thought art was the savoury of thanet guess not if it yours house !
I go past this house regularly and everytime I smile. Good luck Sue and Douglas, hope it gets to stay
I think it looks lovely.
They are colourful people not boring grey, and we should salute their creativity.
I agree with those that say its uplifting as you drive into Ramsgate! Cheer up those that think its a problem
I don’t need cheering up, thanks.
I rather think you do.
But, Pete Nichols, you are mistaken. whaat a lot of jumping to conclusions there is in these comments.
What
project harder Pete.
Think the council need to tackle the graffiti and the state of our Heritage town take a look at that ..a eyesore
Well said !
REALLY!!! is this the local news!!!…isn’t there worse things to worry about in this world!! Let them do what they like i say….
What great advertisement for them!! Brilliant!
Why do the owners need an advertisement?
Showing that TDC have nothing better to do at these times!!! Thats rralky what i meant
Really*
what are they advertising, exactly?
The house looks amazing and adds to the environment. Just more lunacy from TDC.
“The house looks amazing and adds to the environment. ”
It looks like the range/B&M threw up their “take backs” from the last seasons summer ranges all voer the property and isn’t in keeping with the style of the rest of the property in the area.
No , it is not “more lunacy from TDC”. A council officer is doing their job, that’s all.
Cheers to the cute beach house full of lovely energy.
Haters gonna hate.. especially neighbours. Some people don’t like happy they want everything to be sad and dull
what an incredibly reductive and patronising way to behave. Not to mention how you’re projecting how you subconsciously feel about yourself on to others.
Nobody hates it- but not everybody likes it. Your comments are not only insulting but wrong.
You in whole are an insult the humans and should been swallowed which would have made the world a better place
Hi, this is my parents house and I’m really proud of it. If you would like to back them please email the council and say so! You will need to leave your real name and address on the email for it to count.
planning.services@thanet.gov.uk
Quoting ref 21/0138
Thank you for all the support 🙂
Also just wanted to say on behalf of Mum and Dad how much all the support means and how happy they are to find out how many people love what they’ve done.
Obviously it’s not for everyone as we are all different so thank you to all those that have said it’s not their “thing” but still show support for it.
Support costs nothing but means so much. Thank you for making my parents happy!
I’m famous for not being impressed by anything and I love it. Good luck to them and I hope it can stay. The planning team and the council have far more pressing issues they should be dealing with
My mummy and daddy have asked me to write and say what an appalling and hideous carbuncle this is. They hope that the planning committee takes heed of the Officer’s recommendation that this sneaky retrospective application is given the deserved boot.
Fck off you irritating old smelly cun*! Go take your miserable self to the old people’s home out the area and do us all a favour!!
Marva seems very invested in this story. A little too invested.
So you mean “interested” or “has a vested interest in”?
Perhaps the people objecting prefer ‘little boxes, made of ticky tacky..little boxes all the same?’
Perhaps they don’t.
Well there are pink ones there are blue ones there are green ones and yellow ones.
What does “a little too invested” mean?
If the only reason for complaint is colour then does that come under racism?????????????????
some on here need happy pills a bit of colour in peoples lives what is wrong with that?at least it stands out from the rest of a dull concrete coloured Thanet.
Who needs “happy pills” and why?
Some of us like neutral colours for houses-cream, white , beige- you know, like you see on Regency and Georgian houses. We have a lot of these in Ramsgate. Perhaps they should all be painted in jolly seaside colours too.
bla bla bla saddo
Actually, if you know your architectural history, In fact both the Georgians and Victorians painted their houses in very vivid colours, the neutral and beige muted colour tones are actually not fitting to the original design intent but a much more modern interpretation of how these houses should look. This property is not in a conservation area, and so i don’t see what all the fuss is about – so long as it’s not offensive home owners can paint houses however they like as long as it is not breaking any covenants. I don’t see how TDC can state this is a planning issue!
Currently, brightly coloured older houses are in a minority.
Neutral-cploured external walls have been popular for a long time.
Well done freedom of expression perfectly put. Just a shame the ones calling themselves marva rees, conserned and phyllis quot are too thick to understand and in there own little world of dirty and dull houses will always be sad and try put others nice places down with what can only be described as Bellshill!!
That should be “bla bla bla saddoes” because “Some of us” is plural.
But then English grammar, like good taste, are alien to you, Ms peeling.
shut up phllis you know nothing about me at all so why don’t you just carry on watching the lift, I mean who in their right mind stands watching the number of people that use a lift? if a man was to watch the number of people using the lift he would be called a pervert some of you on here think you are so blasted perfect well let me tell you you are not you madam, are a moaner and a p.ss taker of the highest rank get a life you sad biddy and learn some manners along the way ,by doing that you can only become a better person, insult me Phyllis and I will do the same to you is this bad enough taste for you?get lost and do not bother me again
David Russell-What is “Bellshill”?
no it should not Phyllis I was replying to Marva single person one, not plural get your facts right
Totally agree more colourful homes, nature is full of colour so why can’t people paint homes in what ever colour they want. More important things to worry about, why not complain about not enough police to keep people and property save, just a thought
Quite right Chris
I rather like it. Bright and cheery. Brings a smile to your face as you pass. Comments that this was in breach of the original planning application are right. inasmuch as the original plans included the external colour scheme. Maybe they were inspired to change the colour scheme part-way through the build and didn’t realise they were tied to the original in the planning consent? Unfortunate. However, if the extension was a part of the original house or had been built many years ago, then this could be classed as ‘maintenance’ of the external aspect of the property. To what extent should our choice of colour of paint for our walls and doors and windows, or even make the decision not to paint at all and allow to fall into disrepair and develop the ‘derelict look’, be the subject of planning consent (unless we have chosen to live in a conservation area of course)?
How about TDC accept this colourful addition to the Ramsgate scene. It appears, based on the contents of this lively forum and the objections/supporting comments sent to planning, that the majority of those interested would support it.
But the owners and supporters should accept that planning protocol wasn’t followed and therefore a “soft” fine of perhaps £1,000 could be levied. The owners would be asked to nominate a charity who are involved in other projects to liven up Ramsgate (perhaps the Art Barge as an example) and they and their supporters could make the donations. Hopefully the hefty size of the fine would warn others to seek approval and follow planning guidelines but on this occasion, Ramsgate society benefits. And looking at other Thanet stories today, we need it.
I will send my support to TDC.
was going so well until you mention donating to another bloody art project.
There are loads more local needy charities and projects that are far more important than art.
I am sick and tired of art this art that art the great saver of the world. If i do graffiti its vandalism if some arty bloke called banksy does graffiti its called art !. No its still graffiti.
There are far more deserving projects in Ramsgate than the arts barge.
I suspect the council’s decision will be made on the basis of possible votes.
Only mentioned arts because of the theme of this particular discussion. I do actually agree with you both. There seems a lot of what appear to be half baked arts ideas/projects that need completing rather than competing. And the arts barge is just an obvious one as it’s so visible with not a lot apparently happening, given it is supposed to be looking good in time for the 200 celebrations.